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MINUTES OF THE
LEGISLATIVE AUDIT SUBCOMMITTEE
Wednesday,
April 12, 2023
•
3:30 p.m.
•
445 State Capitol
Members Absent:
President J. Stuart Adams, Co-chair
Speaker Brad R. Wilson, Co-chair
Sen. Luz Escamilla
Sen. Evan J. Vickers
| Rep. Angela Romero
Rep. Mike Schultz
Staff Present:
Kade R. Minchey, Auditor General
Debbie Clawson, Executive Assistant
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Note: A copy of related materials and an audio recording of the meeting can be found at www.le.utah.gov.
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| Speaker Wilson called the meeting to order. |
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| MOTION:President Adams made a motion to approve the minutes of the December 13, 2022 meeting.The motion
passed
with a vote of
5-0-1.
|
|
| Yeas -
5 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
1 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | Rep. M. Schultz
| |
| 3.Audit Report Presentations |
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| Mr. Brian Dean, Deputy Auditor General, introduced An In-Depth Follow-Up of Healthcare in State Prisons (Report #2023-01). |
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| Ms. Nicole Luscher, Audit Supervisor, presented the findings of the audit. |
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| Ms. Luscher responded to a question from Representative Schultz regarding the implementation status of the recommendations listed in finding 1.1 which showed that not all recommendations have been adequately implemented, which was contrary to what was reported to the Legislature on October 19, 2022 by the Utah Department of Corrections. |
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| Mr. Dean responded to a follow-up question from Representative Schultz regarding whether the auditors had drilled into why the Utah Department of Corrections said the recommendations had been implemented when they had not. |
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| Mr. Dean responded to Senator Escamilla's comments about her strong feelings for the things described in the first audit and her concern with the discrepancy reported by the agency, and asked whether the auditors had seen this discrepancy in reporting from agencies previously. |
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| Ms. Luscher also responded to this question from Senator Escamilla. |
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| Senator Escamilla further expressed her concerns, and looks forward to an opportunity to hear a response from the agency. |
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| Representative Romero echoed the concerns of Senator Escamilla regarding the culture and strategic plan of the agency and is hoping to get some answers today. |
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| Mr. Dean responded to Speaker Wilson's question from a section of the report (located at the top of page 18) that he read out loud, and asked the auditors for their assessment of the likelihood of being able to address this culture of noncompliance in a successful way, and what might be the likelihood of success. |
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| Ms. Luscher also commented on the question from Speaker Wilson. |
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| Mr. Brian Nielsen, Executive Director, Utah Department of Corrections responded to the findings of the audit |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to a question from Senator Escamilla clarifying who would be accountable to the Legislature when Health and Human Services and the Utah Department of Corrections were working together. |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to a question from Representative Schultz regarding recommendations that were reported to the Legislature as being implemented when they had not been implemented. |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to an additional question from Representative Schultz whether their internal auditors had reported to him that things had been implemented. |
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| Representative Schultz commented on the concerning problem that a report was made to the Legislature that was not accurate, as the auditors found out when they came back in for the follow-up audit. |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to a question from Speaker Wilson asking for information on the EMT turnover and their progress and strategy related to that. |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to a question from Senator Escamilla regarding how it will work to remove EMTs and add RNs and LPNs so there could be more accountability. |
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| Mr. Nielsen responded to Senator's Escamilla concerns that EMTs are the ones working in the lines where inmates are not receiving medications, and they are also not accounting for what medication the individual received. Mr. Nielsen also responded to Senator Escamilla's concern about EMT certification. |
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| Senator Vickers asked Director Gruber and Director Nielsen to please let him review the processes and system that will be put into place regarding the prescription medications. |
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| Ms. Tracy Gruber, Executive Director, Department of Health and Human Services, responded to the findings of the audit |
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| Ms. Gruber responded to a question from Representative Schultz wondering if she believes this is the right move to help inside the prison, and wondering if it should have been set up this way in the beginning. |
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| Ms. Gruber responded to another question from Representative Schultz about whether they had the tools necessary to overcome the culture of noncompliance from the past. |
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| Representative Schultz commented that he is excited about the teaming up of the departments to make sure that the inmates are taken care of in a way that needs to happen. |
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| Senator Escamilla asked both agencies to bring as much communication as possible to the Legislature as they work together. |
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| Ms. Gruber answered a question from President Adams about whether they have a timeline to make some of these transitions, and what is a good follow-up period of time. |
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| MOTION:President Adams moved to refer An In-Depth Follow-Up of Healthcare in State Prisons to the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Interim Committee as the Lead Committee and the Executive Offices and Criminal Justice Appropriations Subcommittee as the Review Committee.President Adams answered a clarifying question from Senator Escamilla that both the Auditor General's Office and the agency would participate in the follow-ups to the Lead and Review Committees.The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
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|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| Speaker Wilson thanked all of the staff for the work they have done on the audit. He also thanked both directors for coming today and acknowledged that they have hard jobs, very big departments, and they are both in big transitions right now and thanked them for what they do. |
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| 4.Audit Report Presentations |
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| Ms. Leah Blevins, Audit Manager, introduced A Performance Audit of Space Utilization by The Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind (Report #2023-03) |
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| Ms. Hillary Galvin, Audit Lead, presented the findings of the audit. |
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| Molly Hart, Vice Chair/Audit Committee Chair, Utah State Board of Education and Debbie Davis, Chief Audit Executive, Utah State Board of Education responded to the findings of the audit. |
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| Ms. Blevins responded to the question from Speaker Wilson about what the next steps are relative to the why and the what of this audit from the auditors' perspective. |
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| Ms. Galvin gave further clarity to Speaker Wilson's question. |
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| Mr. Minchey responded to a question from Speaker Wilson for clarity on what decision point we are at with the money we have appropriated for these schools relative to the audit and if we need to be recommending any decision to Executive Appropriations. |
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| Ms. Hart also responded to the question from Speaker Wilson. |
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| Speaker Wilson commented that we appropriated money to get these schools built, so let's work together to make sure everyone is on the same page. |
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| MOTION:President Adams moved to refer A Performance Audit of Space Utilization by The Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind to the Public Education Appropriations Subcommittee as the Lead Committee and the Infrastructure and General Government Appropriations Subcommittee as the Review Committee.The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
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| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| MOTION:President Adams referred back to the In-Depth Follow-Up of Healthcare in State Prisons and made a motion that we have a follow-up audit 18 months into the future so there is an 18 month period of time for them to be able to actually perform the tasks that they have been asked to do and that we do a follow-up audit 18 months from now. The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
|
|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| President Adams noted that both Director Nielsen and Director Gruber are here and that they are in concurrence with the follow-up audit. |
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| Mr. Jesse Martinson, Audit Manager, introduced the A Performance Audit of the San Juan County Commission (Report #2023-02) |
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| Mr. August Lehman, Audit Supervisor, presented the findings of the audit. |
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| Mr. Lehman responded to some questions from Speaker Wilson asking to clarify the part of the report that refers to commissioners seeking legal counsel and other concerns related to that. |
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| Mr. Lehman answered a question from Speaker Wilson to explain whether two commissioners constitute a quorum. |
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| Mr. Lehman responded to a question from Senator Escamilla regarding whether there is statute that limits the ability to use outside counsel. Mr. Martinson also gave further clarification about this subject and whether there should be statute for this. |
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| Mr. Lehman responded to a question from Representative Schultz for clarification of finding 2.1 and where the county attorney was in regards to this. |
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| Mr. Lehman and Mr. Martin responded to a question from Representative Schultz regarding whether the council members had been trained on the Open and Public Meetings Act. |
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| Representative Romero commented that in order to understand this audit we have to understand the culture of San Juan and the overall dynamics of how the system works out there. |
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| Mr. Bruce Adams, San Juan County Commissioner responded to the findings of the audit. Jamie Harvey, San Juan County Commisioner, Silvia Stubbs, San Juan County Commissioner, and Mack McDonald, San Juan County Administrative Officer are also present. |
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| Mr. Jamie Harvey responded to the findings of the audit |
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| Ms. Silvia Stubbs responded to the findings of the audit |
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| President Adams thanked the audit staff and the commissioners for their efforts to try to solve these problems. |
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| MOTION:President Adams moved to refer A Performance Audit of the San Juan County Commission to the Political Subdivisions Interim Committee as the Lead Committee and the Government Operations Interim Committee as the Review Committee.The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
|
|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| Mr. Brian Dean, Deputy Auditor General, introduced Two-Year Follow-Up of 911 Call Answer Times for VECC and Salt Lake City 911 (Report #2023-A). |
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| Mr. Jake Dinsdale, Audit Supervisor, presented the findings of the audit |
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| Scott Ruf, Executive Director, ECC Board of Trustees responded to the findings of the audit |
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| Korban Lee, Chair, VECC Board of Trustees, responded to the findings of the audit. |
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| Representative Schultz congratulated the agency for all of their hard work and for meeting their goals, and, in many cases exceeding them. He also thanked the auditors for the work and effort that was put forth. |
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| President Adams expressed appreciation to the agency and the auditing team, and emphasized that the real winner in this is the citizens. As we work together to fix problems, we get a great outcome. |
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| MOTION:President Adams moved to refer Two-Year Follow-Up of 91 Call Answer Times for VECC and Salt Lake City 911 to the Executive Offices and Criminal Justice Appropriations Committee as the Lead Committee and the Public Utilities, Energy, and Technology Interim Committee as the Review Committee.The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
|
|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| Speaker Wilson asked Director Ruf to continue to send the emails to he has been sending to President Adams and him and also to the auditor's office, but those could come quarterly now. |
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| MOTION:President Adams moved to prioritize the following audits and give flexibility to the Auditor General to begin the audits as staff expertise and resources become available:-A statewide audit of selected counties' process for assessing property taxes for both residential and commercial property. This audit should evaluate the truth in taxation process, specifically the property tax evaluation and assessment process at the county level and determine if the process is consistent, transparent, and fair;-An audit of the safety, security, and staffing of the Utah State Prison; and-An efficiency and effectiveness audit of the Utah Transit Authority (UTA).The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
|
|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
| | | |
| Mr. Kade Minchey, Auditor General, presented the 2023 General Session Impact; Lead and Review Committee Status Update: 2022, and Recommendation Dashboard |
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| MOTION:President Adams made a motion to adjourn.The motion
passed
with a vote of
6-0-0.
|
|
| Yeas -
6 | Nays-
0 | Abs-
0 | |
Sen. J. Adams
Sen. L. Escamilla
Rep. A. Romero
Rep. M. Schultz
Sen. E. Vickers
Rep. B. Wilson
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