Administrative Rules Review Committee
August 13, 1997- 9:00 a.m. - Room 305 State Capitol
Members Present:
Sen. Howard A. Stephenson, Cochair Rep. John B. Arrington
Rep. Byron L. Harward, Cochair Rep. James R. Gowans
Sen. David L. Buhler Rep. Martin R. Stephens
Sen. Mike Dmitrich Rep. David Ure
Staff Present: Members Excused:
Arthur L. Hunsaker, Research Analyst Sen. Robert C. Steiner
Esther D. Chelsea-McCarty, Associate General Counsel
Barbara A. Teuscher, Committee Secretary Members Absent:
Sen. Craig A. Peterson
1. Call to Order and Approval of Minutes of Meeting Held July 23, 1997
Chair Harward called the meeting to order at 9:10 a. m.
MOTION: Rep. Gowans moved to approve the minutes of July 23, 1997. The motion passed unanimously.
2. R25-7 Travel - Related Reimbursements for State Employees (Sen. Dmitrich and Rep. Gowans) -
Mr. Hunsaker referred to a copy of the July `97 revised procedures on travel reimbursement for state employees and the administrative rule involved. Copies of the pamphlet were distributed. He said compared to the procedures listed in the pamphlet the rule was brief, and more detail should be in rule.
Ms. Kim Thorne, Director, Division of Finance, said the philosophy of the division is to keep rules fairly simple and put the more detailed issues in policy because of the potential of change.
Chair Harward explained that if agency action affects employees outside the agency, the statute requires putting it in rule. Ms. Thorne indicated that the rule would need to be revised.
Ms. Thorne said she would look at all of the division's policies and procedures and report to the committee.
Mr. Ken Hansen referred to Section 63-46a-3(4) (b) that is used regarding state agency finance issues. Committee discussion and public comment followed.
Chair Harward asked Ms. Thorne to review her rules as planned and report back to the committee on what she feels should and should not be in rule. Ms. Thorne agreed.
Ms. Thorne gave an update on proposed Rule R25-13, Payroll Deductions, that was presented in the previous rules meeting. A public hearing was held and input from that hearing will be reviewed in preparation for making changes to the rule. Previous committee input will also be considered.
3. Insurance Bulletin 97-3 of Individual and Small Employer Health Insurance, and R590-176-4 General Provisions Small Employer Open Enrollment (Chair Harward) _
Chair Harward explained his concerns regarding insurance bulletins and whether they address issues more appropriately set forth in rule.
Mr. Neil Gooch, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Insurance, explained that the intent of the department is not to circumvent the law but to address a specific problem involving commissions paid on high risk policies.
Rep. Harward said the question is whether the division accomplished what the bulletin indicated which was putting it in administrative rule before the bulletin was issued.
Mr. Gooch explained the intent of the bulletin. He said the division needs to look at the statute indicated to make sure the division is in compliance with the law. If the division can maintain the benefits of issuing bulletins without violating the law, the division would like to do so.
Chair Harward said he would like to have it in rule, and requested for the division to let Mr. Hunsaker know what decisions are ultimately made.
4. R477-7 Child Care Facility, General Construction (Sen. Buhler) --
Sen. Buhler commented on the "120 day emergency rule." His concerns: 1) Why is it an emergency rule instead of a regular process, and 2) Should there be a financial impact statement? Sen. Buhler said we need to know what the cost of the compliance is going to be. His main
concern is that the rule may be more specific than is necessary.
Ms. Debra Wynkoop-Green, Director, Bureau of Licensing, Department of Health,
introduced Ms. Iona Thraen, the new Division Director of Health Systems Improvement. Ms.
Wynkoop-Green then compared the old rules to the new rules and pointed out the differences
between the two. The division is in the process of recruiting nine members to the Statutory
Board Advisory Committee. The division has held five training classes regarding the proposed
rules. Classes are being given to inform people as to what an emergency rule is, how to read the
statute, and the definition of exempt facilities. Ms. Wynkoop-Green stated that the division has
given education classes to over 1,000 people. The public is most concerned with staff-to-child
ratios for 13 to 24 month olds.
Chair Harward said he hopes that when the division hears from day care providers that
the division will be able to filter out the benefits to children and that which is beneficial to
limiting competition pressures.
Rep. Stephens asked how discipline is proposed in a child care facility.
Ms. Thraen indicated that using removal from a situation is acceptable. Ms. Wynkoop-
Green discussed and explained specific guidelines relating to Rep. Stephen's question.
Sen. Buhler suggested that as the rule is finalized, more should be done to arrive at more
detailed fiscal impact information. Also, to consider whether it is something that is vital in
protecting the health and safety of children. He is concerned with trying to make it too much of
an ideal world, and suggested having minimum standards.
Sen. Stephenson said the committee would like to avoid micro-managing and requested
the division make sure what is stipulated in rule has a statutory basis.
5. R477-7 Compensation - (Sen. Buhler) - Exempt employees -
Sen. Buhler introduced this issue and expressed his concerns with the rule.
Ms. Karen Suzuki-Okabe, Executive Director, Department of Human Resource
Management, presented information on the genesis of the rule. She further discussed the
severance pay issue and said that the purpose of severance is to bridge unemployment.
Chair Harward asked Ms. Suzuki-Okabe, from the governor's point-of-view, whether
there is an element of severance benefits to the contracts? She explained the severance program
and the differences between specific contracts and severance. Ms. Suzuki-Okabe said that her
understanding is, relevant to the contracts, those individuals receiving the consulting contracts
served a legitimate function at the time.
Chair Harward asked what the Legislature can do when a policy is set in regard to
severance to make it clear and concise and not subject to back door use? Ms. Suzuki-Okabe said
the very nature of how one deals with severance and the connotations that are associated with
severance make it a difficult program to administer. Committee discussion followed the
presentation.
6. Committee Business
a. Date of Next Meeting - August 27, September 15, September 30
b. Items for Next Meeting - Committee members were asked to read all of DEQ's definitions and requirements in the August 1 Bulletin for discussion at the next
meeting.
-- Chair Harward - Child Abuse Registry Sept 15 meeting
-- Sen. Stephenson - Calculation of fiscal note costs for rules - (Scheduled for the first meeting in October)
Chair Harward directed staff and the Division of Administrative Rules to work out how
hard copies of the Administrative Code can be stored in division offices or given to other users.
The committee will use the Utah Law on Disc CD Rom and if a change in statute is needed, it
can be done in a cleanup bill.
7. Adjourn
MOTION: Rep. Arrington moved to adjourn the meeting at 12:25 p.m. The motion passed unanimously.
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