Judiciary Interim Committee
Members Present:
Sen. Craig L. Taylor, Chair
Sen. Lyle W. Hillyard
Sen. Robert C. Steiner
Rep. Patrice M. Arent
Rep. John B. Arrington
Rep. Loretta Baca
Rep. Afton B. Bradshaw
Rep. Katherine M. Bryson
Rep. Keele Johnson
Rep. Tammy J. Rowan
Rep. Glenn L. Way
Members Absent:
Rep. Byron L. Harward, Chair
Sen. Lane Beattie
Sen. David L. Buhler
Rep. J. W. "Bill" Hickman
Rep. Martin R. Stephens
Staff Present:
Mr. Jerry D. Howe,
Research Analyst
Ms. Esther Chelsea-McCarty,
Associate General Counsel
Ms. Glenda S. Whitney,
Secretary
Note: A list of others present and a copy of materials distributed in the meeting are on file in the Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel.
1. Call to Order and Committee Business - Chair Taylor called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m.
MOTION: Rep. Arent moved to approve the minutes of the August 20, 1997 meeting. The motion passed unanimously with Rep. Baca absent for the vote.
2. Uniform Probate Code
Draft legislation was distributed, 1998FL-0155/003, "Uniform Probate Code Amendments" for committee review.
Mr. Thomas Christensen and Mr. Mark Lehman, Utah State Bar Estate Planning Section, explained that the bill had been amended as suggested by the committee at its last meeting. Ms. Esther McCarthy distributed a summary of changes from the 1998FL-0155/002 draft to the 1998FL-0155/003 draft for the committee to compare.
The committee discussed and approved the changes.
MOTION: Sen. Hillyard moved to adopt the 1998FL-0155/003, "Uniform Probate Code Amendments" as a committee bill. The motion passed unanimously.
3. Immunity for Volunteers
Ms. Esther Chelsea-McCarty, Associate General Counsel, distributed 1998FL-0069/003, "Immunity for Volunteers," "Current Statute and New Statute Outline," and "Utah's Immunity Statutes." She stated that the draft was very, very rough. Several current statutes have been repealed in order for the committee to discuss the issues involved, she said. In addition, she explained that the new sections need the most attention. In summarizing the legislation, she noted that critical policy choices needed to made before the bill can be completed.
Chair Taylor asked Mr. Kline Strong whether he knew what percentage of Utah volunteers are independent volunteers as opposed to volunteers for non-profit organizations. Mr. Strong said that he completed a study which found that 59.9 percent of all volunteers working with non-profit organizations would quit if they new the risks of liability.
Sen. Hillyard emphasized that we need to know how many volunteers have quit, not how many may quit.
Mr. Strong responded that most volunteers do not know the extent of their liability. Furthermore, organizations are reluctant to allow us to survey volunteers because they fear the questions we ask will have a chilling effect on volunteers.
Chair Taylor emphasized that the legislature needs to find a compelling reason to provide volunteer immunity.
Public Comments:
Mr. Richard K Winters, Executive Director, Community Services Volunteer Center, explained that many non-profit organizations are reluctant to participate in a survey of volunteers because they fear the survey itself may drive away potential volunteers.
Mr. Winters said that it is difficult to recruit volunteers when knowing full well volunteers are not immune from liability. He questioned whether a failure to disclosure to volunteers an accurate assessment of liability could be grounds for litigation. Volunteers, he said, are extremely critical to the Community Services Council, they provide the equivalent of 37.6 full time employees.
Mr. Ralph L. Dewsnup, Utah Trial Lawyers Association, said that he does not see evidence of the major emergency to justify this statute. He noted that Utah has never provided blanket immunity for volunteers, nor has Utah ever experienced a problem getting volunteers. If anecdotal evidence is sufficient to meet the requirements established by the court, then we may have reason to pass this bill. But the mere fact that liability exists in theory for negligent volunteers is not reason enough to provide blanket immunity. He said that too many innocent people who become harmed by negligent actions will be left bearing the responsibility of this
legislation.
Furthermore, Mr. Dewsnup explained that liability requires a finding of fault. Someone
has to be injured, through no fault of their own, because someone else has failed to follow
reasonable standards of conduct. Why would the state offer immunity against negligence, he
asked. Indeed, a home owner's insurance policy will cover almost all cases of simple
negligence, yet the likely result of this bill is that
for those who qualify for immunity will no longer be covered by a home owner's policy. If there is immunity, then there is no negligence.
Without negligence, insurance does not pay. Moreover, he said that the legislature has a
responsibility to protect victims and potential victims. This bill only protects the negligent and it
should not be passed, he said.
Ms. Karmen Sanome, Salt Lake County Aging Services, confirmed the notion that
volunteer recruiting is becoming more difficult.
Mr. Nate Alder, Utah Non-Profit Association,
said that if the legislature could meet the requirements
of Condemarin and help lower minimum insurance requirements, then the volunteer community would be pleased with the bill.
Ms. Chelsea-McCarty explained that this bill did not address the insurance requirements.
However, she said, whether the requirements should be replaced or the minimum limits lowered,
is an important discussion.
Chair Taylor asked Ms. McCarty for further information on instances where the home
owner's policy would not apply if this bill were to pass. He wondered of the bill could be drafted
to protect the volunteer beyond homeowner policy limits.
Chair Taylor indicated that this issue will be on the agenda for the November Interim
meeting for more discussion and that public input will also be taken at that time.
4. Adjournment
MOTION: Rep. Rowan moved to adjourn the meeting at 4:36 p.m. The motion passed unanimously.
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