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NOTE: You may notice textual errors throughout this document, many of which have been left intact from the original text. Should you want to investigate the integrity of the original report, please refer to the original two printed volumes containing the official report of the proceedings and debates.


THURSDAY, 2 p. m., March 7, 1895.

The Convention was called to order by President Smith.

The roll was called.

The PRESIDENT. I will say that Mr. Thatcher asked to be excused on account of sickness in his family and was sent for.

I will state to the Convention that Bishop Scanlan was invited to be here in attendance and offer prayer but I have just within a moment received his letter of declination on account of sickness and I would ask Honorable Francis A. Hammond of San Juan County to perform that duty.

Mr. Hammond thereupon offered prayer in compliance with the request.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. Robertson of Emery County is present and has not been sworn in yet. I would suggest that he be sworn in.

Mr. MURDOCK (Beaver). Mr. President, Mr. Preston also is present and has not been sworn in. I would suggest that he be sworn in.

The oath was then administered to Messrs. Preston and Robertson by the President.

The minutes of the session of March 5, 1895, were then read.

SECRETARY. Mr. President, the following communication has been handed to me:

To the President and Members of the Constitutional Convention:


We, your committee on site, most respectfully report that we have carefully examined different locations and are unable to find anything more suitable than the quarters we now occupy. We, therefore, recommend that we accept the generous proposition of the county court of Salt Lake County, which is attached to and made a part of this report. We will state that the county court has kindly agreed to drape the alcove behind the speaker's chair to shut off the strong light. We therefore recommend that we engage the services of the chief janitor of the county's part of this building as the janitor of this Convention. All of which is respectfully submitted.



The following is the attached communication:

The following is an extract from the minutes of the county court, held on February 28, 1895:

Resolved, that the use of the civil court room in the joint county and city building and such other rooms

as may be necessary be tendered the members of the Convention to be held in Salt Lake City, commencing March 4, 1895, for the purpose of framing a Constitution for the State of Utah, provided that the county be at no expense of making any changes that may be necessary in said room, and that no charge be made for the use thereof, unless there be funds remaining in the hands of the territorial secretary, after all other expenses of said Convention are paid, of the money apportioned by Congress for the expenses of said Convention, and that the members of the county court and the county attorney associated be appointed a committee to wait upon the secretary of the Territory for the purpose of making such arrangements for the use of such rooms by said Convention as may be necessary. The resolution was seconded and adopted, all voting aye.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. Chairman, I move that action on that report be suspended for one day, and that the committee be asked to continue their investigations and my reason is this: There are two or three gentlemen in this assembly that are old and feeble. It is hard to come up these stairs. I am not referring particularly to myself, but to some of the older ones. Again there is no room here for spectators, and there is wonderful desire on the part of the people to listen to and watch these proceedings and the reason for my motion is that I believe the Christensen hall_ {60} that is the old Continental market, could be obtained cheaply, it is a fine building. It will give us ample room and give ample room for five hundred or six hundred or perhaps a thousand spectators. It is on the ground floor. There is no special haste about this. We won't be any more uncomfortable for one more day than we have been and hence I make the motion that the action on this report be suspended for one day and that the committee be asked to see if the Christensen hall cannot be obtained and if it can, if it will not answer the purpose better. I speak of that particularly.

Mr. RALEIGH. I second the motion.

The PRESIDENT. Has there been a second to that motion?

Mr. RICKS. Second the motion.

Mr. GOODWIN. I hate to make my speech for fear no one will second it. There will not be a great many social entertainments in that house and we might just as well do penance there as to do it in this hall. I speak particularly on account of the outside public that they may have a place to see and hear.

Mr. JAMES. Mr. President, I arise to second that motion. I have a further reason; I have been called upon by a number of Salt Lake citizens, notifying me that they are going to send a petition to this body, asking them to secure some suitable place, where they may have some little opportunity at least to come and hear the debates of this assembly, and I have had it mentioned to me that there is a possibility of obtaining quarters not very far distant from this room; that I don't care to say anything about, as it comes to me privately; and I wish that that committee should continue their work, and I will second the motion to postpone action until to-morrow, with the notice that I may then move, if they have not settled upon some place in that time, to postpone it until still another day.

Mr. NEBEKER. Mr. President, as one of that committee, I would like more specific instruction on the part of this Convention, whether it is desirable by the Convention to secure quarters for

spectators, or whether it would be more desirable to secure quarters with a view of having convenient committee rooms. Now, the committee has, in the short time that they have been given or that we have taken to report, considered that the committee rooms would be a subject that ought to receive consideration on our part. We have felt that by having convenient committee rooms, the work of the Convention could be expedited_if the rooms were convenient to the assembly room. So I would like the Convention to give specific instructions as to whether it is desirable to look more to the committee rooms, or whether it is more desirable to accommodate the spectators.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I understood the resolution of the County Court was that the civil court room of this building be tendered for the use of this Convention. Perhaps that room would be better adapted to the use of this Convention than this, without they meant that the wording over these doors should be typical of the crowd that is gathered here.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, I would like to ask if the Continental Market, which has been suggested as a proper place for meeting, is supplied with desks and seats? I think it is not, and to use that place would necessitate the fitting of it up, and it would be a somewhat heavy expense, which, I suppose, would fall upon the Convention and not upon the citizens who desire to attend in the capacity of spectators.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention, I would like to ask if the committee desires more time. If they do, it will make a difference as to how I shall vote.

Mr. NEBEKER. Well, Mr. President, I can say for myself, that unless there is a sense of this Convention, I need not {61} have more time to report on this subject, because at present I don't know whether it is more desirable for the members to have the committee rooms in the same building or whether to have more room for spectators and more convenience for the members themselves in the assembly room.

Mr. JAMES. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say to the gentleman this: Simply that we would like to have a report and investigation of the premises spoken of as to the desirability of the place for meeting. I think you will find that there are rooms there sufficient for committee purposes_as much so probably as you have here. It may not be in the judgment of this Convention a proper place at all, or even of the committee, but simply postpone this until to-morrow or some other day and in the meantime look a little further and let us know what you think about it.

Mr. NEBEKER. I have no objection whatever to that.

Mr. ANDERSON (Beaver). Mr. President, I would like to ask for information; does the report just made by the committee make any provision in regard to desks? It was my understanding that this committee was on furniture and desks as well as site.

Mr. MORITZ. Being the chairman of the committee, Mr. President, I would state that there is another report to be read regarding the desks.

The motion of Mr. Goodwin was unanimously carried.

The secretary then read the remainder of the report of the committee as follows:

To the President and Members of the Constitutional Convention:


Your committee on furniture most respectfully beg to report that we are unable to find sufficient suitable desks for the use of the Convention, but we can obtain thirty-six from the secretary of the Territory gratis, and also thirty more for a reasonable rental. The balance, forty-one, we can get made for the sum of six dollars each and ready for us by Tuesday, March 12. Respectfully submitted.



Mr. PIERCE. I move to refer this also back to the same committee to act in conjunction with the other report.

The motion being seconded was unanimously carried.

The PRESIDENT. I desire to state to the Convention that it will be impossible for me to bring in my report of the list of committees, to-day. I had completed it in part, but had suggested so far as I could to members that I would like to know the committees that they would prefer to be on and if we can adjust them to their satisfaction, would like to do so; and I find there must be some rearrangement but in order that we may have some rules for the government of this body, I will report upon rule one, and that was, “Rules and method of procedure.” Under the rule, the president of this Convention is made the chairman of that committee. That committee is to consist of the President, C. S. Varian, W. H. Gibbs, Charles H. Hart, and David Evans.

Mr. PETERS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the president how long a time he would desire to have in order that he can make out this report.

The PRESIDENT. Well that is impossible for me to say. I have been working at it night and day nearly since we started. It is a big list of names and it is rather difficult to adjust them and get them properly and fairly distributed among the members, but I think by to-morrow, without any trouble, I can finish it.

Mr. PIERCE. What time to-morrow?

The PRESIDENT. 2 o'clock.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I move that we do now adjourn until to-morrow at 2 o'clock.

Mr. NEBEKER. Before the adjournment is taken as a member of the committee on site and furniture_

The PRESIDENT. With the permission of the gentleman.

Mr. PIERCE. I will withhold my motion, Mr. Nebeker, for you.

Mr. NEBEKER. The report does not carry any suggestions with it and I think that it would be well on the part of the Convention to decide to-day whether or not it will be necessary to have these desks, so that we can have them made and have the members seated as soon as possible. One day would be lost unless we took action to-day on that subject.

The PRESIDENT. Are there any instructions to be given to this committee in regard to desks?

Mr. C. P. LARSEN. Mr. President, I think that would be premature, until we know whether we will need the desks or not. It is possible that we will remain here.

Mr. IVINS. Mr. President, I move that this committee be authorized to provide suitable accommodations for the members of the Convention in the way of furniture.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I second the motion.

Mr. JAMES. Mr. Chairman, before that motion is put, I want to say this, that if the motion is carried, it may somewhat interfere with our final location, and may provide us with some things that we do not want, and I hope that the motion will go over and the matter be referred back to the committee until to-morrow.

Mr. IVINS. Mr. President, as the mover of that motion, it seems to me that there is no reason why it should not carry. It does not matter whether we meet here or somewhere else. We have got to have some furniture provided, and I simply wish to empower this committee, whether we meet in this room or some other room, to provide necessary furniture for the use of the members.

Mr. JAMES. Mr. Ivins, will you allow me_

Mr. IVINS. Yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. Suppose we find a place where we will not need the furniture.

Mr. IVINS. Well, I guess if the committee find a place where they won't need the furniture they won't provide any.

The motion was thereupon put and carried unanimously.

Mr. Hart offered the following resolution which was read by the secretary:

Resolved, that until otherwise fixed or changed, the regular sessions of this Convention shall begin at 10. 30 a. m. each day, Sundays and holidays excepted.

Mr. HART. I move the adoption of the resolution, Mr. President.

Motion seconded by Mr. Ricks.

Mr. PIERCE. I now renew my motion to adjourn until to-morrow at 2 o'clock.

Mr. GOODWIN. I second the motion.

Mr. ROBERTS. I wish you would withdraw that just a moment.

Mr. PIERCE. What is the matter?

Mr. HART. Mr. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. This is in the nature of a motion to fix the time of adjournment, and the gentleman's motion, although in the same nature, would have to take the shape of this motion.

The PRESIDENT. The motion to fix a time takes precedence.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, this is a motion to fix the time of holding our sessions for all the Convention, and mine is a motion simply to adjourn. If we want to fix the time to adjourn until to-morrow, whether it be ten or half past ten or eleven or two o'clock, it might be in order, but the motion of the gentleman from Cache County is wider and contemplates much more than a motion to adjourn to some particular time.

The PRESIDENT. You make an amendment to that motion, do you?

Mr. PIERCE. No; my motion is simply a motion to adjourn, which is always in order_until to- morrow at 2 o'clock.
Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. Chairman, that motion, if passed, becomes a rule. It does not come under the head of an adjournment and an adjournment does not interfere with it, and until the committee on rules report that part ought to be laid on the table, The motion to adjourn is in order and should be submitted.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I know the motion to adjourn is not debatable, but that I may vote intelligently I would like to hear read the resolution introduced by Mr. Hart.

The resolution was read again by the secretary.

Mr. RALEIGH. Mr. President, I beg leave to make a motion amending the motion of Mr. Pierce, to adjourn until to-morrow at half-past ten.

Mr. WELLS. I desire to ask, Mr. President, if we vote in favor of Mr. Pierce's motion, when will we reassemble?

The PRESIDENT. 2 o'clock.

Mr. WELLS. Has that been determined?

The PRESIDENT. That was the motion, to adjourn until 2 o'clock.

Mr. FARR. Mr. President, I would like to have this matter settled. For my part I would rather begin our regular sessions at 10. It would meet my mind nearer. I think we had better get to work in time. If we want to change the time until 2 o'clock that is all right, we can change it until 2 o'clock for tomorrow.

The PRESIDENT. The chair thought it would be ready to make its report upon committees by to- morrow at 2 o'clock.

Mr. THURMAN. Mr. Chairman, I realize this question is not debatable and I do not want to debate it, but I want to ask for information_what the gentleman wants to adjourn for at this hour, when there seem to be men who want to have a hearing on the floor on some matters of business?

The PRESIDENT. The only thing to do is to vote him down, as I see.

Mr. THURMAN. Well, that is what I want them to do.

The motion of Mr. Pierce was lost by a vote of 34 ayes to 62 noes.

The PRESIDENT. The question is now on the motion on the resolution of Mr. Hart.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I move you that the resolution of Mr. Hart be referred to the committee on rules.

Motion seconded.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I would ask for information, having been away at the beginning of the session. Has the committee on rules been appointed?

The PRESIDENT. Yes, sir.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I second the motion, Mr. President.

The motion was put and unanimously carried.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I would call for the reading of the resolution, presented by Mr. Eichnor, I think on yesterday, for the reason that I am of the opinion that in that very important matter to this Convention, there has been an omission, and I would like also to see or have read that part of the day's proceedings immediately following that, as I think I can point out the fact to

the gentlemen of the Convention, that they will not be satisfied with that record, and of course have an amendment to move on that subject.

The resolution referred to was read by the secretary. Also minutes immediately following.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is the important point. Mr. President, I wish to amend the record of yesterday by inserting the following immediately after the resolution offered by Mr. Eichnor:

The Convention was declared to have conformed to that part of the Enabling Act requiring the adoption of the Constitution on behalf of their constituents, and the Convention was now competent to proceed to the formation of a Constitution {64} and State government for the Territory of Utah.

If I can obtain a second to such an amendment, I have a remark to make.

Mr. THURMAN. I second it.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, it seems to me that we ought to be careful in making up the record of the Convention's proceedings, and in so important a matter as the adoption of the Constitution on behalf of our constituents, that we ought to round out the record, and make it complete, by a declaration that it was done.

The third section of the Enabling Act reads: (See page 4).

I would accept a suggestion as to my amendment and have it part of the amendment, that preceding this amendment that I propose, there be a statement that the Constitution of the United States was unanimously adopted, and then proceed with the words that I have written out. It seems to me, Mr. President, to be a matter of such importance that we ought to complete our record on that subject.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I would like to ask the gentleman from Davis County a question. Do you offer it as an amendment to the resolution introduced by me, or simply as explanatory after the resolution?

Mr. ROBERTS. As explanatory matter after the resolution; my motion is to amend yesterday's record so as to have this amendment of mine follow the resolution and to show that it was unanimously adopted.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I think that is very proper. We ought to vote for that and the vote should be unanimous.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to hear Mr. Eichnor's resolution read again in connection with this matter.

The same was read by the secretary.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I would suggest there and move as an amendment to Mr. Roberts' resolution,

that the words, “and the Convention” or “the Convention was now competent to proceed,” be changed to read, “and to be competent to proceed”_correlating it with “to have conformed.”

Mr. RALEIGH. Mr. President, I think it would be well to put in the term that we adopt the Federal Constitution.

The PRESIDENT. The Constitution of the United States, it reads.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I would ask leave just for a few moments to copy this out more carefully. It was prepared in the confusion of the house.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no objection, the gentleman may withdraw it for a few moments to do so.

Mr. Hart offered the following resolution:

Resolved, that the sergeant-at-arms be instructed to call upon the territorial librarian, J. P. Bache, for such books of reference and useful pamphlets as he may have to place at the disposal of this Convention during its session.

MR. HART. Mr, Chairman, I move the adoption of that resolution, and in explanation, I will state that Mr. Bache has some state constitutions and other matter that he can send up here for use during our session.

Motion seconded by Mr. James.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, there is a law on the statute governing the powers and duties of the territorial librarian, and under that law, the library and he are under the control of the judges of the supreme court. That law, with the rules under it, prohibit the taking of books from the library or pamphlets, except upon an order of some justice of the court. While I apprehend that this order would not have the force of a law, still it might serve to place the librarian in an embarrassing position. I would suggest to the gentleman that he withdraw the resolution and remodel it in the shape of a request to the justices of the supreme court o the Territory.
Mr. HART. Mr. President, I will say in reference to that matter, and you will notice from the form of the resolution, that there is nothing mandatory about it. It simply says, such as he may have to place at our disposal. I am aware of the regulation of the library, that it is not a circulating library, but that is a matter with the clerk himself, and he certainly will not violate his duties as a librarian.

It may be private property for aught I know, or it may not be connected with the law library proper. At any rate, he has the books that he is willing to turn over to the sergeant, if we so desire.

The resolution was adopted.

Mr. WELLS, Mr. President, I desire in behalf of the committee appointed to investigate the subject of a stenographer to report progress and ask for further time.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no objection, further time will be granted.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I am now prepared to present the amendment to yesterday's record as redrafted; following the resolution introduced by the gentleman from Salt Lake, that these words be inserted in yesterday's record:

The resolution was unanimously adopted. The delegates were thereupon declared to have conformed to that part of the Enabling Act requiring the adoption of the Constitution of the United States, on behalf of the people of Utah, and the Convention was declared authorized to form a Constitution and State government for said proposed State.

The motion was agreed to.

On motion of Mr. Ricks, the Convention adjourned until 2 o'clock to-morrow afternoon.

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