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NOTE: You may notice textual errors throughout this document, many of which have been left intact from the original text. Should you want to investigate the integrity of the original report, please refer to the original two printed volumes containing the official report of the proceedings and debates.

{190 - REPORTS}

The roll was called showing the following members present:

Allen
Anderson
Bowdle
Brandley
Button
Buys
Call
Cannon
Christianson
Clark
Coray
Corfman
Crane
Cushing
Driver
Eichnor
Eldredge
Emery
Engberg
Evans, Weber
Evans, Utah
Farr
Gibbs
Goodwin
Green
Hammond
Hart
Haynes
Halliday
Hill
Howard
Hughes
Hyde
Ivins
James
Johnson
Jolley

Excused:
Barnes    
Boyer        
Cunningham    
Creer        
Low, William    
Low, Peter
Maughan
Nebeker
Thatcher
Thoreson
Warrum.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I would like to be excused for the balance of the day.

Excused.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I would like to ask to be excused, I am suddenly and unexpectedly called away this afternoon, and I do not know just when I will return.

Excused

Prayer was offered by Rev. Dana W. Bartlett, of the Congregational church.

The journal of the previous day was read by the secretary, corrected and approved.

The PRESIDENT. I am requested to excuse the committee on preamble and declaration of rights for a few minutes. They will be excused if there is no objection.

The PRESIDENT. Reports of standing committees are now in order.

The committee on printing presented a report, which was read by the secretary, as follows:

Constitutional Convention,

March 16th, 1895.

MR. PRESIDENT:

Your committee on printing beg leave to report that they have requested and received sealed bids from the publishing houses of Salt Lake City, on printing of 250 constitutional committee reports. The Star Printing Company of Salt Lake City, being the lowest bidder, we recommend that the contract be awarded to them at the rate of $1.95 per page.

Respectfully,

RICHARD G. LAMBERT,

Chairman.

Mr. LAMBERT. I move that it be adopted.

Carried.

The secretary then read as follows:
{191}

Constitutional Hall,

March 16th, 1895.

Mr. President and Members of the Convention:

We, your committee on accounts and expenses, beg leave to report as follows:

Expenses of Convention up to and including Friday, March 15th, 1895, $8,672.51; balance on hand, $21,327.50. Above report does not include expense of printing.

A. C. LUND,

Chairman.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I understood these reports were to be made when called for, not daily. I move it be placed on file.

Carried.

The report of committee on apportionment and boundaries:

The secretary then read as follows:

MR. PRESIDENT:

Your committee on apportionment and boundaries recommend that file No. 83 on boundaries be adopted by the Convention. We also recommend that file No. 79 be referred to the committee on municipal corporations. Also that file No, 87 be laid on the table, as it is covered by file No. 83.

ALMA ELDREDGE,

Chairman.

Mr. SQUIRES. It depends, Mr. President, upon whether it is a matter to be inserted in the Constitution. We do not know what this file is until we have it read.

Mr. BUTTON. Mr. President, I move that it be read.

The PRESIDENT. It will be read if there is no objection.

The secretary then read as follows:

Commencing at a point formed by the intersection of the thirty-second degree of longitude west from Washington with the thirty-seventh degree of north latitude, thence due west along said thirty-seventh degree of north latitude to the intersection of the same with the thirty-seventh degree of longitude west from Washington; thence due north along said thirty-seventh degree west longitude to the intersection of the same with the forty-second degree of north latitude; thence due east along said forty-second degree of north latitude to the intersection of the same with the thirty-fourth degree of longitude west from Washington; thence due south along said thirty-fourth degree of west longitude to the intersection of the same with the forty-first degree of north latitude; thence due east along said forty-first degree of north latitude to the intersection of the same with the thirty-second degree of longitude west from Washington; thence due south along said thirty-second degree west longitude to the place of beginning.

Mr. HILL. I move that that be referred to the committee of the whole.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I would like_

The PRESIDENT. Is there a second to Mr. Squires' motion?

Mr. PIERCE. I would like to have the report of the committee read again. The secretary read the report.

Mr. PIERCE. Will you indicate what the number of the file was?

The SECRETARY. The file that I read was number 83.

Mr. PIERCE. That is the one that is to be adopted?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President, rule 19 makes the disposition of this matter without any action of the Convention.

(Reads rule 19.)

The PRESIDENT. That is the rule, gentlemen; the point of order is well taken.
{192 - PROPOSITIONS}
Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, there is quite a number of other points that this committee will report. As far as this matter goes, it will follow the rule, as to the other points that it recommends be referred to the committee on municipal corporations, those matters should not go to the printing committee nor the committee of the whole. Will you read the other propositions?

The secretary read file No. 79.

Mr. PIERCE. I move you that that part of the committee report which recommends that this file be referred to the committee on municipal corporations be adopted and a reference made.

Carried.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I move that that part of the committee report which recommends that file No. 87 lie on the table be adopted.

Carried.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I wish to be excused.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no objection the gentleman will be excused.

The introduction of ordinances and propositions for insertion in the Constitution.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I move that all propositions received, unless otherwise called for, under suspension of the rules, be read by their titles twice and referred to the appropriate committees.

Carried.

Mr. Corfman introduced a proposition for insertion in the Constitution relative to the seat of government (file No. 89), which was read by the secretary as follows:

Section 1. The Legislature shall have no power to change or locate the seat of government of this State; but the question of the permanent location of the seat of government of the State shall be submitted to the qualified electors of the State at the first general election held after five years from the date of the adoption of this Constitution. A majority of all the votes cast at said election upon said question shall be necessary to determine the permanent location of the seat of government for the State; and no place shall ever be the seat of government which shall not receive a majority of the votes cast on the matter. In case there shall be no choice of location at said first election, the Legislature shall at its first regular session after said first election, provide for submitting to the qualified electors of the State the question of choice of location between the three places for which the highest number of votes shall have been cast at the said first election. Said Legislature shall provide further, that in case there shall be no choice of location

at said election, the question of choice between the two places for which the highest number of votes shall have been east, shall be submitted in like manner to the qualified electors of the State at the next ensuing general election; provided, that until the seat of government shall have been permanently located as herein provided, the temporary location thereof shall remain at Salt Lake City.

Section 2. When the seat of government shall have been located, as herein provided, the location thereof shall not thereafter be changed, except by a vote of two-thirds of all the qualified electors of the State voting on that question, at a general election, at which the question of the location of the seat of government shall have been submitted by the Legislature. The Legislature shall make no appropriations or expenditures for capitol building or grounds until the seat of government shall have been permanently located and the public buildings are erected at the permanent capital, in pursuance of the law.

Mr. Kiesel introduced a proposition. for insertion in the Constitution relative to corporations (file No. 90), which was read a first and second time by its title, and referred to the committee on corporations other than municipal.

Mr. Chidester introduced a poposition relative to the protection of bona fide settlers on school lands of this State (file No. 91), which was read a first and second time by its title and referred to the committee on education and school lands.

Mr. Robison ( Wayne) introduced a proposition for insertion in the Constitution on forestry (file No. 92), which {193 - MOTIONS} was read a first and second time by its title and referred to the committee on public lands.

Mr. Bowdle introduced a proposition for insertion in the Constitution relative to giving the Legislature power to control rates to be charged by railways and other corporations (file No. 93), which was read a first and second time by its title, and referred to committee on corporations other than municipal.

Mr. Thompson introduced a proposition for insertion in the Constitution relative to regulating corporations (file No. 94), which was read a first and second time by its title.

Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. President, I move that it be referred to the legislative committee. That is the proper committee.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no objection it will be so referred.

Mr. LAMBERT. Mr. President, some days since there were some strictures put upon the printing. That day, after our adjournment, I received this communication which I have in my hand; as chairman of the printing committee, I would like to have the privilege of reading it.

(Communication read.)

The PRESIDENT. We are on motions and resolutions.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I move we adjourn.

Seconded.

Mr. WELLS. Mr. President, I desire to ask a question. I think it was three days ago that we ordered printed a list of the standing committees, rules of the Convention and the Enabling Act. I have not received a copy of that yet, although I would like very much to get one.

Mr. LAMBERT. The printer contracted to have them here at 2 o'clock to-day. He just telephoned they will be here in a few minutes.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, the reason I ask what order of business we had reached, is because I want to make a motion. I trust we have not passed that yet.

The PRESIDENT. We have passed it; there is a motion to adjourn.

Mr. WHITNEY. Before I could get the floor I was confronted with that.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I will withdraw my motion to adjourn in order to let the gentleman present his matter.

Mr. WHITNEY. I move that the committee on rules take into consideration the advisability of providing an additional clerk to assist the clerk of the Convention. If I may have a second I will state my reasons.

Mr. HILL. I second the motion.

Mr. WHITNEY. In my remarks of yesterday, I do not wish to be reported as making any reflections or saying anything to the discredit of the clerks of the Convention or of the officers in any way. I believe the corps of clerks is an overworked body. This Convention is two or three times the size of the legislative body, and yet we have provided to handle the business that comes up here, only one set of clerks; and in speaking as I did, it was not to find fault with the clerks so much as to show that another clerk was needed. I suggest that, instead of putting this labor upon the committee, the labor of revising the minutes_upon the committee on compilation and arrangement, or any other committee, the proper way would have been to elect another clerk_that is, an additional clerk, to render assistance that I think they need; I therefore, make this motion, disclaiming any intention to reflect upon the clerks or to wound the feelings of anyone, and I move that this matter be taken under consideration, for I think you will find out before you get through that the clerks need more assistance.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I think this motion should pass. Mr. Whitney {194} is certainly

right when he spoke of this large body having only as many clerks as we had in our Legislature where there are possibly twelve in the upper house and twenty-four in the lower. If you examine the proceedings of various constitutional conventions, which approach the number that we have in our Convention, you will find that they have about double the number of clerks that we have. This is certainly not a motion for extravagance; it is certainly a motion that every member should vote for. It is a fact that the minutes of our sessions, if they are ever published in book form_you will find some of the proceedings there, that no man on earth can tell what some of the members meant on this floor, when they got up and attempted to raise parliamentary points and introduced motions. I will defy any man, if those minutes are ever published, to find a worse jumble, than some of the delegates made in their motions, in any other Convention. I believe a great deal of this carping and criticism should apply to us. A great number get up_some of us get up and speak before we are recognized by the president. We fire in a motion before we are recognized. Let everything be done decently and in order; and I am in favor of this motion to give the clerks more assistance. And if they need another one besides this man, I am willing to vote for another one.

Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President, I move that we adjourn.

Mr. CANNON. That is not seconded.

SEVERAL DELEGATES. Second the motion.

Mr. EICHNOR. Vote it down.

The PRESIDENT. Is the motion to adjourn seconded?

Mr. WHITNEY. The motion was seconded that I made.

The PRESIDENT. A motion to adjourn is always in order.

Mr. VAN HORNE. Mr. President_     

The PRESIDENT. No discussion on this.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I understand there was a motion to adjourn, that was withheld for the announcement of committee meetings. I arise to a point of order. Any motion while that motion is pending is out of order.

The PRESIDENT. A motion to adjourn is in order at any time.

Mr. VAN HORNE. I understand, but I understand that a motion to adjourn was made by Mr. Cannon and was withheld in order that the announcement of committee meetings might be made.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. Cannon distinctly withheld his motion to adjourn to allow Mr. Whitney to make this motion as he has made it.

Mr. CANNON. Vote it down.
The question on the motion to adjourn was then put and lost by a rising vote of 23 ayes to 53 noes.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President_

The PRESIDENT. The motion in order is Mr. Whitney's motion to employ more help.

Mr. CANNON. I move the previous question.

Mr. THURMAN. I would like to ask for information, if the president_     

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President_     

Mr. THURMAN. It is for the election of a clerk or a reference of the matter to a committee.

Mr. WHITNEY. To refer it to a committee.

The PRESIDENT. The question is on the previous question.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Has there been any second? I did not hear it.

The PRESIDENT. No, I guess there wasn't. I don't call it to mind. Mr. Evans has the floor.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, {195} perhaps I am under a misapprehension of this motion. Is the motion that you made, Mr. Whitney, to refer this matter to a committee or is it to proceed to the election of another clerk?

Mr. WHITNEY. I will re-state it.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). I will be pleased to hear it.

Mr. WHITNEY. My motion was to this effect, that the committee on elections take into consideration the advisability of providing an additional clerk to reinforce those already in office.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, I am opposed to the motion. I have not been convinced yet that we need more committee clerks. Reference has been made here by the gentleman from Salt Lake that we have been speaking one, two and three at a time. That may be true, but we ought not have done so. We have rules here and we ought to enforce them, and after we have done that, and we shall find then that our committee clerks are not able to transact the business of this Convention, then I shall be in favor of it, but not until then. Our rules say here_     

The PRESIDENT. State the point of order.

Mr. CANNON. My point of order that the motion is not to appoint another committee clerk, but an assistant clerk for our secretary. The gentleman is speaking of the committee clerks.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). It is a minute clerk. That is what I am objecting to.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman moved that the matter be referred to the committee on rules to consider the propriety of employing additional help to the clerks.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I want to ask a question.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor has the floor if the gentleman is through.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). I just yield for the question only.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. Mr. Eichnor has spoken once on this question and I have had no chance.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor will take his seat. The point of order is well taken.

Mr. EICHNOR. I am not endeavoring to speak, I simply want to ask him a question.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will ask his question.

Mr. EICHNOR. I will ask the gentleman from Utah County, if the delegates do not observe strict parliamentary rules and laws, whether it is right to criticise [*note*]the clerks that sit up there for their work?

Mr. EVANS (Utah). I decline to answer the question, for the reason that it has no bearing on this matter. Rule No. 8 says: Any member rising to debate, give a notice, make a motion or present a paper, shall not proceed until he shall have addressed the president, and been recognized by him as entitled to the floor. I submit to you, Mr. President, that if that rule shall be enforced, as I believe it ought to be, that no one will be speaking only he who has a right to speak, and it is just as easy for our clerk to take the minutes from one man speaking upon the question in a body of this kind, as it is if there were but five persons there talking to him; and I think that the argument that has been advanced by reason of this large body, does not have any good effect. As I stated before, however large the body may be, our rules provide that it must be done in order, and if this rule shall be enforced, there is no need of an assistant clerk. I believe we have plenty as it is, and I am opposed to the motion.

Mr. PIERCE. I am in favor of Mr. Whitney's motion and for this reason, it only involves the question of an investigation of the point whether we need other clerks or not.

Mr. PIERCE. Before this Convention {196} is called upon to pass upon this question, this committee is asked to report on the advisability of it. We cannot now, in this Convention, state whether these clerks are working more than they should, or whether we put more duties upon them than should be put upon them, until after we have had an investigation, and it is not fair_it is manifestly unfair, gentlemen of this Convention, to criticise our clerks, who, I believe, are doing the best they can, until this matter has been referred to the committee, and all this motion of the gentleman from Salt Lake contemplates is the reference to a committee, and it is a proper question, and I think it should be passed, and then we can determine whether or no we should have the extra clerk. I am in favor of it, and do not think that any opposition should be put into it.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I am in favor of the motion, and I wish to explain that if I said anything yesterday that seemed like a censure to anybody, I meant it yesterday for Mr. Eichnor and Mr. Pierce. [Laughter.]

Mr. CANNON. I move the previous question.

Seconded.

The PRESIDENT. The previous question is called for, is there a second?

Mr. BUTTON. Mr. President, there is one thing_

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Button you are out of order.

Mr. BUTTON. I arise to a point of order. The point of order has just been stated by the gentleman now. Here is a motion that comes up and may_

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. He was not recognized by the chair.

Mr. BUTTON. Nor was the gentleman who made the motion.

The previous question was ordered.
The PRESIDENT. All that are in favor of the motion of Mr. Whitney of referring this matter of another clerk to the committee on rules, will say aye; those opposed, no.

Carried.

Mr. CANNON. I move we adjourn. Carried.

The Convention then at 3:07 o'clock p. m. adjourned.