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NOTE: You may notice textual errors throughout this document, many of which have been left intact from the original text. Should you want to investigate the integrity of the original report, please refer to the original two printed volumes containing the official report of the proceedings and debates.

The roll was called and all members found in attendance except Thatcher.

Prayer was offered by Rev. W. S. Hawkes of the Congregational Church.

The journal of the thirty-second day's session was read and approved.

Messrs. Murdock, Coray, Apperley, Neilson, Denny and Ollerton were admitted to a seat on the floor of the Convention.

The following petitions were presented, asking that the question of woman's suffrage be submitted as a separate article to the vote of the people;

File No. 175, signed by George L. Nye and ninety others, by Varian of Salt Lake.

File No. 176, signed by J. W. Savage and one hundred and fifty others, by Button, of Salt Lake.

File No. 178, signed by James L. Franken and fifty others, by Eichnor, of Salt Lake.

File No. 179, from the Chamber of Commerce of Salt Lake, by Roberts, of Davis.

On motion, they were ordered filed. Mr. C. P. Larsen, of Sanpete, presented a petition (file No. 177), signed by about five hundred citizens of Sanpete, requesting that the question of prohibition be submitted to a vote of the people.

Referred to the committee on schedule, future amendments and miscellaneous.

The following minority report of the committee on water rights, irrigation and agriculture was submitted;

MR. PRESIDENT:

I beg leave to submit a minority report on the subject of irrigation as follows:

ARTICLE.

Section 1. All existing rights to the use of any of the waters of this State for any useful purpose, shall be recognized and confirmed.

Section 2. The Legislature shall provide by law for the regulation, distribution and controlling of the waters of this State and may provide by law such rules and regulations under which rights may be acquired to any of the waters of this State, for any useful purpose, and shall also provide for the

protection of all water rights acquired, or to be acquired for any useful purpose.

LAURITZ LARSEN,

On the committee of water rights.

Mr. LUND. Mr. President, I would make an oral report of the committee on accounts and expenses. We have left $10,870.88, and the amount disbursed, which the secretary has actually paid, is $16,600.25.

Mr. JAMES. May I ask the chairman of the committee on accounts and expenses whether he has submitted the bill for clerk hire for the committee on corporations other than municipal.

Mr. LUND. The committee on corporations had a clerk who wrote ninety-one letters, addressed them to different points of the Territory and paid the postage and the material, and the charges are $20. They asked that that be permitted or allowed.

Mr. VARIAN. I would like to ask the chairman of that committee whether he has taken care of the bill allowed by the committe on rules?

Mr. BOWDLE. I would like to ask the chairman of the committee whether that includes the expense of the printing?

Mr. LUND. Yes, sir; as far as we can get at it to-day

Mr. JAMES. Mr. President, I move the adoption of the report of the committee.

The PRESIDENT. Should not there be a written statement to the secretary here of this matter? The chairman will hand it up in writing.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. President, I think the report of this committee ought to set out the items of expense that go to make up these different amounts.

The PRESIDENT. He has it right there in his book.

Mr. RICHARDS. I do not care to have them myself. I think the report itself should show the items. I suppose it will.

Mr. LUND. Mr. President, I will say for the information of those who would like to know, that there has not been one item omitted. It is all upon the list, even five cents. When the bill is printed the item has to be there too.

Mr. RICHARDS. I do not think the gentleman understands my suggestion. My suggestion is it should be incorporated into the report and become a part of the record of the Convention.

Mr. LUND. The committee on corporations.

The PRESIDENT. What is the amount?

Mr. LUND. Twenty dollars.

The account was allowed.

Third reading of ordinances and propositions to be inserted in the Constitution.

The PRESIDENT. This brings us to the consideration of elections and suffrage. Section I was under consideration when we adjourned.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I move to recommit the article on elections and rights of suffrage to a special committe of five members with instructions to report an article providing for equal suffrage for men and women, to be submitted separately to the qualified electors of the Territory with the Constitution, and to revise the general article on the subject for insertion in the Constitution, so that it shall harmonize with the proposition for separate submission. The objection made on yesterday, by means of a point of order, was principally made on the ground that purposes sought to be accomplished by the amendment offered were not germane to the matter under consideration, and the house sustained the chair in his ruling upon that question. It is manifest that under that ruling, to which we must now bow, of course, the majority of the house, being of the opinion that it was right_it is manifest that in no other way can {713} this question be presented to this Convention, so that those of us who are in favor of submitting this question separately can be heard and record our votes on it. We do not record our votes on that question by voting aye on this article, or by voting no against this article. When this article, as now pending before the Convention, shall have passed its third reading and been adopted under our rules, no further amendments are allowed to it, and it must go into the Constitution, unless at least two-thirds of the Convention should decide to suspend the rules for the purpose of allowing an amendment. And if a proposition of this kind should come from the committee on schedule, such report and such advocacy would be at once met with this very answer, and with this proposition, “We have already put into the Constitution something that is entirely in conflict with this proposition now suggested by the committee on schedule.” So, the Convention will perceive that it is virtually depriving a very large minority_possibly one-third of the members of this house, of a right not only of their own right, but the right of their constituents to express by their votes on the record there their convictions upon this question.

Mr. CHIDESTER. I take it, Mr. President, that this is an extraordinary motion to make at this stage of the proceedings, to submit that to a special committee when it has been in charge of a committee and has been reported upon, from the fact that that committee who had it in charge was largely in favor of the report that was presented here, there only being two members who were opposed to it, and it seems to me to be in the nature of an attempt to prolong this and put it

off. Now, I may be accused again of wanting to crowd this matter through, but now, I believe that I am justified in saying that this is an attempt to postpone it_an attempt which was defeated yesterday, and in answer to the proposition of the gentleman who just spoke, that in the event that the committee on schedule would bring in something that it would be met by members who favor this, now that this had been adopted_if that is the voice and sentiment of the majority of this Convention, then it is proper that it should be settled, and I see no reason why this matter should be submitted to any committee, either to the standing committee or to any special committee appointed for that purpose. I believe it has had due consideration, and I call the attention of the gentleman to the fact that everything that could be required, in the way of giving a chance to meet this, has been done from the beginning, and it was left open from the beginning that any objection might be brought in, and it was taken up the first day and at the end of the session it was there stated that it would still be open for discussion. Nothing was brought in, and I say it is unfair now to even make an attempt to resubmit that to the standing committee or to any special committee.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I would like to add, with leave, an amendment to that motion as to time, which did not occur to me, I want leave to insert in there, “within three days.”

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I make the same objection to the motion as amended as I did before.

Mr. IVINS. Mr. President, this seems to me like a very unusual proposition for more reasons than one. In the first place the amendment provides that this matter shall be submitted to a committee of five with instructions just what they are to do. Now, if that committee is to take this matter under advisement, with instructions to report an article providing for the separate submission of this matter to the qualified electors of this Territory, why cannot we do it right here without sending into committee at all? It does not leave any discretion {714} with this committee that is to be appointed. They are appointed for a certain purpose, and that purpose is well defined in the proposed amendment. That is one reason that I object to it. Another reason is that it seems to be inopportune to propose such an amendment at this time. This has been properly reported from its proper committee. It has been before this house in committee of the whole and been considered there, and passed, and now at this stage, to ask that it be committed to a special committee, seems to me to be entirely out of place. It is simply asking that that be done which this body refused to do yesterday, and that is, to submit this proposition to a separate vote of the people. Now, Mr. President, in connection with this matter, and as a part of my argument, I wish to read a call that appears in this morning's Tribune, signed by about two hundred persons, some of whom are members of this Constitutional Convention.

(Reads:)

A mass meeting of all the qualified voters of Salt Lake City and County, is hereby called to be held at the Exposition building, on Friday evening, April 5, 1895, at 8 o'clock, for the purpose of protesting against the incorporating into the Constitution, now being prepared for the proposed State of Utah, the proposition entitling women to vote and hold office in the new State, and for the purpose of taking such action as may be advisable with a view of requesting the Constitutional Convention to make provision for the submission of the question of woman's suffrage to a vote of the people, under such regulations as

shall be provided by the State Legislature.

Mr. THORESON. Mr. President, I am opposed to any further delay in this matter. It seems to me that a majority of this Convention should insist upon having their rights. I do not think now that we should continue this campaign work any further. In looking around this Convention we see that the friends_or rather those that have individual scruples against equal suffrage_are absent from this Convention a good portion of the time. We hear and see announcements of meetings in which they expect to speak. I say that this has originated upon the basis of personal scruples against this subject, because neither of the great parties of the Territory dare come out and say that we do not want it. We came here instructed how to vote. When we got here this Convention showed a great majority in favor of this proposition. The supporters of the two political parties of this Territory dare not say nay to the proposition. The entire people of this Territory that voted last November, by their expressions through their party platforms, told us to come here and to grant equal suffrage to men and women alike, and after these votes had been taken again and again, we find that this small minority are getting in with resolutions and motions for delay, for postponement, to set aside the rights of the great majority of this Convention and of the people of the Territory. I hope, gentlemen, that we will now sit down upon this proposition and get down to work and stop this second campaign on this same proposition.

Mr. BOWDLE. Mr. President, I have sat {715} here I think for seven days and listened to the gentlemen about this question. I have never said one word in this Convention with reference to the question, but I am in favor of this proposition and I will tell you why. I am not afraid of the people; I am not afraid of the voice of the people; I believe the voice of the people generally is right. I do not know what the people may say, I do not know whether any petitions will come up here. I know that whatever petitions may come if they be by the tens of thousands will not change my conviction or my opinion upon this question. I have been somewhat slow coming to that conclusion, but I think I have canvassed it carefully and if the vote were to come this morning, or come next week, I think my convictions are so clear upon that subject, that it would not change. If I were to fear the people_that sovereign power that the gentlemen have talked about so much, I would pack my grip and leave the country, and hunt some lone island, and live in solitude, and not live among my fellows. I am not afraid to trust the people of this Territory on that question, or on any other question that may be submitted to them, but I expect to go before this people next fall, when it comes time for the ratification of this Constitution. I want to say to them, “we have given you every opportunity to be heard on every important question. We have not throttled your voice. We have listened to your petitions and now we come to you with the result of our work.” Suppose this thing should come to a vote this morning, with this proposition, fair as I presume,

and as I believe it to be, and I fear that I might stand where a great many voters will stand next fall_if this proposition to make it absolutely and irrevocably a fact that woman is to have the right to vote, is put into the Constitution. I want to vote, and I want my vote recorded that I favor the people of this Territory settling the question as to whether woman shall vote or not. I will be perfectly willing if it could be done that woman should settle it herself and that man keep his hands off, but that will probably be impossible, but I am in favor of the next thing that comes the nearest to that, that the people shall settle it. Suppose, as I stand here this morning, my name was called to that first article in this bill of suffrage. My present conviction would be that I could not support that, but I would, with all voice and power, support the proposition, and I will do it any time during this Convention, to submit it to the vote of the people, and by the verdict of that power that is above all other power in the State. I do not care if you make this a shorter time than three days, but give us who want our vote to be recorded upon that proposition, the opportunity. Mr. Ivins says, “Why cannot you do it now?” If you will do it now I am willing to vote upon it, but I want that vote to be in that way and I want my privilege to put it just in that shape. Therefore, I favor this proposition to recommit it, and recommit it to a committee of one and ask him to report within an hour if you want to, but give us that opportunity.

Mr. THURMAN. Mr. President, I think it ill-becomes a gentleman to stand upon this floor and ask if we are afraid to leave matters to the people. I want to know who it is in this Convention that is trying to give to the people a voice in public matters? One side of this Convention are contending that all the citizens of the United States, without regard to the mere accident of sex, shall have free and unrestricted voice in public affairs, and that side is being denounced by gentlemen and accused of trying to throttle the voice of the people. We are seeking to give the people a voice_all of them.

Mr. BOWDLE. How are you seeking to give them a voice?

Mr. THURMAN. We are seeking to say that every man and every woman {716} citizen of the United States, intelligent, and of requisite age, shall have a right and a voice in public affairs.

Mr. BOWDLE. Upon this question, how are you giving them a voice?

Mr. THURMAN. Upon this question the people have had their voice, and the representatives of your party_far more of them than you have in this Convention, have said that equal suffrage shall be given to women. Four hundred of your party, in solemn convention from all over the Territory, have declared upon this, and here, sir, you have only about forty-four who are trying to say they shall not have it. That is the situation of the party to which the gentleman belongs.

Mr. KIESEL. The people have changed their minds.

Mr. THURMAN. More than four hundred of the party to which I belong have said that women shall have suffrage and here you are trying to persuade about forty of us to say they shall not have it. The representatives of the people have spoken in thunder tones, and I say we ought to settle it, and settle it now. When it comes to the voice of the people, they have spoken. They spoke in primaries; they spoke in their conventions; we have declared ourselves upon this question, and

say that it is improper_it is not right for members of this Convention to sign their names to notices for public remonstrances, and go and make speeches to these meetings and ask this Convention to wait until a meeting gotten up in that way shall have decided the question. I think it is wrong in every sense of the word, and repeat what I said yesterday. I say it is undignified in a Convention of this kind to delay for such a purpose.

Mr. HEYBOURNE. Mr. President, I am just as particular and as desirous of recording my vote as the honorable gentleman who preceded me (Mr. Thurman) in his remarks, and I desire, sir, that that vote shall be recorded, not only in accordance with my own private feelings, but in accordance with the expressed will of the people whom I have the honor to represent upon the floor of this Convention. I claim, Mr. President and gentlemen, that this question that is now under consideration has received unusual consideration. Days of time have been spent and thousands of dollars have been expended in presenting this matter before the delegates of this Constitutional Convention, and after due consideration and deliberation, to which the honorable gentleman from Provo has just referred, we find organizations throughout this city and other cities of prominence, calling the people together, seeking to get their views and ideas with regard to this matter, notwithstanding the opportunities that had been given to some of the honorable gentlemen whose names appear in connection with these statements, that we find in the press this morning. We are, sir, in my opinion, giving to the people their rights. As I remarked upon this occasion before, I do not particularly view this matter that I am bound up by the Convention, or by those who sent me here, or by the agreements that were placed in the party platforms, so much as I look upon this matter as a matter of right and a matter of justice, and to come here now at this late date and state that we are trying to shut off the voice of the people, why this very proposition, sir, is what is giving to the voice of the people their rights and privileges. We are trying to establish in the coming State this important matter, that all classes shall have a right and an opportunity of being heard in the selection of those who shall govern and control them in the years that are to come, and I think, sir, that it would be, to say the least, unwise to go to work now at this date and postpone further action upon this matter. And I am just as tenacious, as I said in the commencement, that my vote should be recorded, as the gentle {717} men are who referred to this matter, and I trust that when this matter comes up it will be recorded in this way that all shall enjoy this right.

Mr. BUTTON. May I ask the gentleman a question?

Mr. HEYBOURNE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUTTON. You say you are ready
to record your vote and are willing that other people should theirs?

Mr. HEYBOURNE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUTTON. How are you going to allow us to record ours?

Mr. HEYBOURNE. You have got the same opportunity.

Mr. HEYBOURNE. You have had it all the way through.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I have very little further to say upon this subject, but there were some things in the remarks of the gentleman from Utah (Mr. Thurman), that are certainly unfair and unjust to the minority on this floor. He made the broad assertion that the minority present here were endeavoring to deprive the women of Utah of the suffrage. So far as I am concerned, I must deny that soft impeachment. I do not believe the gentleman understood the force of his remarks when he made that statement. All that the minority upon this floor has ever asked has been that this question be submitted in a separate article to the people. That is all that they now ask, and if a meeting is to be held to-night under the call read by the gentleman from Washington, with a view to having this matter postponed and not considered until the first session of the Legislature, I do not believe such a proposition will receive a single vote of this Convention. Gentlemen lose sight of the exact situation here. We are all united upon one proposition. I do not believe that there is a man within the sound of my voice, and especially those who are ardent woman suffragists, who has any doubt that the people of this Territory when they come face to face with this proposition will give the suffrage to women. All that the minority asks upon this proposition is that they shall have that opportunity.

Gentlemen from the far counties, like the gentleman from Iron County, and the gentleman from Garfield, and the gentleman from Beaver, told us that they know the exact sentiment of the voters in their counties. We have discovered, who live nearer the center of the Territory here, or the center of population, that we have not understood the sentiment of our constituents. It has begun to dawn upon the people of Salt Lake City that there is a crisis here in the affairs of this Territory. They want statehood for Utah. They want it more than they want anything else. They are afraid, gentlemen, that if you put into this Constitution section 1 of this article as it appears here, without giving the people an opportunity to consider it separately, that in the end you will not have statehood, that all the efforts of this Convention, all the time and all the money will have been utterly wasted and we shall wake up to find that the Constitution which we have worked so hard to prepare will lie buried under the votes of the people. Now, I ask you, gentlemen, to consider which is of the more importance to the people of this Territory? Which do they want most? Is it statehood? Do we want this Territory represented in the halls of Congress by a man who can vote as well as talk? Do we want two men in the United States senate to stand up and re- enforce the element which is in favor of silver? Do we want that? I grant you that we do, and we want it so utterly that we are careful not to prejudice that by putting anything in this Constitution which will defeat it. That is the position which I take and the position which is occupied by the minority upon this floor.
{718}
Mr. ROBINSON (Kane). May I ask the gentleman a question? I understand you to say that if this be submitted separately it will no doubt be carried through?

Mr. SQUIRES, Yes.

Mr. ROBINSON (Kane). Then, why will not the Constitution be carried through if it is in the

Constitution? If there is sufficient to carry the plank separately, why are they not sufficient to carry the Constitution?

Mr. SQUIRES. I will answer the gentleman if he is through. Because there is a widespread sentiment in this city to-day that says to the gentlemen composing this Convention, “Wait. Pause for a few days and give us an opportunity to be heard and, if you fail to pause, if you insult that large constituency in this county and in neighboring counties, who want to be heard upon this proposition, you will arouse an opposition against this Constitution that cannot be staid, and when the votes are cast and counted next November, you will find that the Constitution has been defeated.” That is the position I take. I do not see any harm. I do not see how the gentlemen need to fear the delay for three days upon this question. It does not need to change your votes, gentlemen of the majority. It certainly won't change my vote. The possibility is that there won't be a vote changed in this Convention when the time shall have expired, but we shall have been courteous enough to listen to the appeals from the gentlemen who are interested on the other side of this question. We shall not have insulted the ladies of Salt Lake who are to-day to meet to consider this proposition. We shall not have antagonized men who are devoted to this Territory and who have it in their hearts that the star of Utah should shine upon that banner. I tell you, gentlemen of the Convention, it is time to pause and realize that a great courses - should be courtesy?] has been shown to the minority upon this floor. I grant you that when great questions come before legislative assemblies courtesy is wise, justice is wise. Let us, gentlemen, accept this proposition from the minority. Let us give them this time. If the committee on elections and suffrage feel that they are slighted in this proposition by having a reference made to a special committee, let it go back to the committee on elections and suffrage. I care not so that they follow the instructions given to prepare an article for separate submission and so remodel the article before us to make it harmonize with such proposition. I hope that every gentleman upon this floor who favors the submission of this matter in a separate article in the Constitution will vote to recommit this question to the committee. I call the attention of the gentlemen to the fact that when this matter comes back in three days, it will be only until next Monday. To-morrow we take an adjournment on account of Arbor day. Sunday we certainly cannot do any work. We are not losing any of the time of this Convention. Our calendar of the committee of the whole is filled enough with work lying before us there to last us ten days at least, and when that report comes back we shall have an opportunity to vote upon this question, and I hope we shall have further intelligence upon this matter to enlighten the minds of the gentlemen of this Convention. I hope that this proposition will prevail.

Mr. RALEIGH. I wish to ask the gentleman a question.

Mr. SQUIRES. Yes, sir.

Mr. RALEIGH. You express your opinion that time will not alter the votes of the majority or the minority in this Convention?

Mr. SQUIRES. I said that it might not.

Mr. RALEIGH. What was your object, then, in asking for further time? That is the question I

wish to ask.

Mr. SQUIRES. I believe I answered {719} that question in my remarks. We shall then avoid the insult which would naturally follow when ladies of this city are engaged only this afternoon in a meeting in which they desire to express their wish to this Convention on the subject.

Mr. RALEIGH. I would not want to insult the ladies.

Mr. SQUIRES. And another thing, the minority desire to record their votes on this proposition of separate submission, and we deem it that this is the only opportunity that will come to us in the course of the debate upon this question.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, when this question was up last evening, just before adjournment, I think that the gentleman from Salt Lake unconsciously paid me a higher compliment than he intended to. It is stated that the sentiment that is arising against woman's suffrage in our large centers of population was manufactured right here on this floor. I wish to say in answer to that, that I do not believe it. The sentiment was already there. This perhaps was the occasion of it making itself manifest, and I would rather, sir, have it made manifest now than to have it made manifest when the people come to vote upon the Constitution and be in a condition that they are compelled to vote against the Constitution, in order to express their deep detestation of woman's suffrage. This agitation has resulted at least in this: It has brought the fact to the mind of members in this Convention that all the world are not suffragists and all the people of Utah are not suffragists, and if gentlemen undertake to tell me that this question has ever been before the people of Utah upon its merits, I deny such a statement.

It never has been discussed on its merits. Now is the opportunity to have it so discussed and to have it finally settled and those who are in favor of suffrage shrink just from that issue. That is the position that this question has assumed. I deny that this question was settled in the campaign of last fall. And it never has been discussed upon its merits, and gentlemen may get up here with what emphasis they will, but they cannot contradict that hard solid fact. Now, then we ask that this question be submitted in such form that in the forum of the people the eloquent advocates of this measure may triumph if they carry it to a victorious conclusion. Why do they shrink from the undertaking? Will they answer me that? I agree with the gentleman from Cache Valley. I too am tired of campaign politics upon the floor of this Convention, and that is just the position that this question has assumed. Sparring has been going on for advantage. Gentlemen connected with the party with which I associate undertake to get an advantage of their political opponents upon this floor to have them appear in the light of having somewhat withdrawn from the support of woman's suffrage. They are holding together upon that issue and I denounce it as peanut party politics unworthy of the great party with which I am associated. [Applause.]

No man on this floor, no democrat in the party with which I am associated, more earnestly desires the success of that party than I do, but, gentlemen, you must furnish me a better issue for winning party success in the Territory than the mere quibble of trying to put your political opponents in a hole. If democracy has sunk to that I denounce all such kind of leadership as unworthy of the great democratic party. I want to say to my republican friends that they have

nothing to fear in this issue by insisting that this shall go before the people where it may be finally adjudicated. Whenever that sovereign power shall speak it is an end of the controversy. You now do as the majority upon this floor on this particular issue purpose to do, place it in the {720} Constitution and those who are opposed to woman suffrage have their mouths closed, for the simple reason that statehood is so desirable that they will even swallow woman suffrage, distasteful to them though it may be. I announce upon this floor that this is just what I would do, for I would rather have statehood with woman's suffrage than not have statehood. I had rather have a republican State than no statehood, however great I might consider that calamity to be. [Laughter.] I take it, gentlemen of the majority party on this floor, that you will lose nothing by going to the people upon this issue and insisting that this article shall be submitted as a separate article to the vote of the people. In regard to the objects named in this communication calling a general mass meeting for to-night asking that it shall be referred to the next Legislature, I know nothing of that, nor do I favor it. My understanding is that the object of that meeting was simply to submit this question separately to the people just in the same sense that it is proposed to submit prohibition to the vote of the people.

That far I am in sympathy with it and no further than that, and I cannot conceive how the majority party on this floor cannot fulfill every pledge it has made to the people by favoring submitting it as a separate proposition, and your opponents who undertake to make political capital out of your action, if you shall conclude to do that, will utterly fail and only reveal their own littleness as manifested in this issue. You have nothing to fear on that, but you have much to gain as they have much to lose for the reason that you take this action in order that you might give statehood all the better advantage of success; while they would be put in the position of risking statehood in order to get a petty advantage of their political opponents. My friends, your party boasts of its courage, it boasts of its patriotism. I now appeal to it and ask you to remove this pretext against statehood by saying, “This shall be submitted to the voice of the sovereign people, and their answer shall be final.” If you do not do that I want to tell you that this will forever be a bone of contention in this new State. Party success, party harmony is dear to me, but the attainment of statehood for Utah is still dearer to me. [Applause.]

Mr. IVINS. May I ask the gentleman a question? Did I understand the gentleman to say that he was not in sympathy with the proposition to submit this to the next Legislature?

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, that was the call or representation that was made to me of the object of this meeting that is called for to-night. The gentleman merely wishes to read my signature to the call for that meeting. I wish to say to him that if the call is as he says, namely, the postponement of this matter for the action of the first State Legislature, I understood nothing about that. My understanding of the call for that meeting, and as it was explained to me, was that it should be to submit this proposition separately to the vote of the people. I understand Mr. Varian, whose name I believe is also attached, understood the matter in the same way.

Mr. VARIAN. If the gentleman will permit me_my name is not attached, but my name is mentioned there in connection with your own. I so understood it.

Mr. IVINS. I just wish to ask the gentleman when he signed this if he was not in favor of that

proposition?

Mr. SHARP. Mr. President, I would like to state that I was with Mr. Roberts when this paper was presented to us, and it was just as he stated. We understood that it was to submit this question to a separate vote of the people, and we both signed that proposition without reading the paper.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I desire to ask {721} Mr. Roberts a question. I may have misunderstood Mr. Roberts in his first remarks upon this question the other day, but I want to ask him now if he did not state then that he was opposed to submitting this question of woman's suffrage in a separate article?

Mr. ROBERTS. No, sir; I do not think I ever made any such statement.

Mr. CREER. Mr. President, I wish to say that I have endeavored to listen with great respect to what has been said by gentlemen who are opposed to taking decisive action upon this section now in consideration, and speaking to the motion_the remarks that have been made here this morning_I will say this, that over one-sixth, or perhaps one-sixth of our time has been expended in discussing this question, and much has been said by way of menace_endangering statehood if this proposition would be fairly presented before the people. I will say right here, gentlemen, that I will look with complacency_my mind has not been ruffled one particle or changed by the eloquence of the gentleman who has preceded me, not one iota, and why should it be? He says that the question has never been placed before the people and we now want this matter brought before them; I want to say this, that it is well known that in each of those platforms there was a prominent plank placed that they were in favor of female suffrage, and it is an insult to the intelligence of the people of this Territory to say that they did not understand what they were doing. Here was something adopted by four hundred men in each of those conventions_

Mr. CORAY. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. The gentleman is not speaking to the question.

Mr. CREER. I am speaking to the question in this wise: This matter has come spontaneously, gentlemen, and it is unfair_it is unfair in this: Because we see here gentlemen absenting themselves, as I believe and infer from their remarks, for the purpose of creating an agitation against this section as it now stands before us. I see two eloquent gentlemen, one from each party, who are announced to speak against the immediate action on this proposition and the placing of it in a separate platform. I want to say to you that the voice of the people has been heard upon this matter.

The standard bearer of the majority of those who oppose the action upon this matter, went through the Territory and announced himself emphatically in favor of woman's suffrage in all that that means_in all of its terms_Frank J. Cannon, your standard bearer. The result of it was that he received nearly two thousand majority of the votes of the people, and yet gentlemen say that this matter has not been discussed. It was discussed by your own champion, gentlemen, for I heard him myself, and the very fact that people took it for granted that there was no issue upon this matter, and now we want to say that this shall recur back to them and get the voice of the

people or you will endanger statehood. Gentlemen, are you afraid of these menaces that are attempted to be brought before the people? It is unfair. It is unfair to the people of the Territory in this: You are in touch perhaps with those that are in sympathy with you, but the great majority of the members of this Convention are not and they could not be in the time that will be allotted to them. We have not the opportunity of getting out amongst our constituents, as you have, and create agitation. I am not afraid of the result. I am not afraid of these menaces. I can look with complacency upon them. And with all the eloquence and oratory that has been displayed here, it does not affect me one particle. It is said sometimes that rhetoric is the art of making people believe things that are not so, and it seems to me that that has been the endeavor here in this Convention_attempting {722} to make the people believe that this matter has not been before the people. I say that is has been before the people and furthermore it is known right around us here_the states on the east of us and all have acted upon this question. It is not a new question. It is something that is understood by the great majority of the people of this Territory. Therefore it is no use, gentlemen. You can not move me, not one iota, by your attempt of oratory, of agitation. I am going to rely upon my own sober judgment in this matter, and I am ready to vote upon the question. What could you do in three days? The gentlemen ask for this motion simply to defer it for three days. Can you reach all the conditions, I say? What has been said with regard to the petition for prohibition? You talk about the voice of the people_have any of you incidently remarked or said one word about the voice of the people in that particular?

Mr. ROBERTS. Will the gentleman answer me a question?

Mr. CREER. I will try to.

Mr. ROBERTS. Is the question of prohibition up yet?

Mr. CREER. It is not, only as it came here by a petition, but I say incidentally, have you had such regard for the people_

Mr. ROBERTS. Has it been reported back by the committee?

Mr. CREER. No, sir; I concede that.

Mr. IVINS. I would like to ask Mr. Roberts a question.

I would like to ask him if he is not the first man that introduced the question of prohibition in this debate in connection with woman suffrage?

Mr. HALLIDAY. What is the question?

Mr. IVINS. I wanted to ask Mr. Roberts if he was not the first person that introduced the subject of prohibition into this woman suffrage debate?

Mr. JAMES. I arise to a point of order.

Mr. IVINS. I think it is a matter of bad grace to spring_

The PRESIDENT. The gentlemen will take their seats. Mr. Richards has the floor.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. President, I am opposed to this motion. It seems to me that this Convention has gone just as far as it can go in the direction of listening to these remarks in opposition to equal suffrage and in delaying the work of forming a Constitution for the State, without submitting itself to ridicule, and if the members of this Convention had heard the criticisms and comments of their constituents that I have heard concerning the conduct of this Convention during the last eight or nine days, they would hesitate and pause before they would insist upon keeping before this Convention a subject that is a continual agitation and will be a source of agitation just so long as it remains before us under consideration. It is time this question was disposed of, and I want to answer some of the questions that have been put here_put in that tone and manner that have prevailed during the whole of this discussion on the part of the minority. In a manner of arrogance_in a manner as though the questions put were unanswerable, that no man could answer them_what do they say? They say, “Are you afraid of the people? The reason you are unwilling to have this submitted in a separate proposition?” No, it is because I have faith in the people that I want it to go into the Constitution, for I know they will not vote against the Constitution. That is the reason I want it there and when men stand up here, and tell me that those who favor placing it in the Constitution are afraid of the people, I say no.
{723}
By that very thing we demonstrate our confidence in the people. It has been said here again and again that this issue was not before the people. I remind the gentlemen that denial and denunciation, however emphatic it may be, is not proof, and it counts for little in the face of the history of the Territory of Utah, and the two great political parties that are represented by the delegates on this floor. Their party platforms speak. The votes of the people on election day speak, And I say, as I have said before on this floor, that I came here as did every other man with the understanding on the part of the people who elected me that I would help to form a Constitution, and in that Constitution, not as a separate article, should be a provision for equal suffrage, and I say I am here prepared to do that work, and when any man stands in this presence and tells me I am shrinking from any issue, I hurl it back and I ask him to look at himself if he wants to see somebody who is shrinking from the issue. [Applause.] And then when the terrible alternative is submitted to us that if we submit this proposition in the Constitution we shall shut the mouths of the opponents of it! Oh, I realize what a terrible loss it would be to the people of Utah to have some mouths closed [applause], and yet gentlemen, with a sense of appreciation that I have of my duty as a delegate, I am even willing to meet that terrible alternative and say that even if it be so I take the terrible consequences of it. I believe in putting this proposition into the Constitution. I believe it because it is right; I believe it because it is just; I believe it because it is expedient, and when men stand here in this presence and tell me that the people of Utah will reject the Constitution that we are framing on that account, I say, gentlemen, with all deference and respect to you, even to the prophetic utterance of my friend from Salt Lake when he says that

this Constitution will be defeated, you do not know the people of Utah as well as you think you do, and if any man stands in this presence and tells me that that will be a stumbling block in the way of the executive of this nation, or any officer in this nation, in causing the admission of the State, I tell that gentleman, whoever he may be, that he is misinformed and I know whereof I speak. I say it is not only unjust, as was said by my colleague from Weber County in speaking of the chief executive of this nation, to say that he would be guilty of an act of tyranny that no man in a free government_no officer was ever guilty of_I say that that is not only unjust, but it is untrue, and I know it is untrue and so I tell you, gentlemen, that these fears held up before you are like the night visions of a dream and they will vanish like the mists before the sunshine in the light of experience. And now, before I sit down, I want to read you one more testimonial in favor of equal suffrage, a telegram that was received yesterday by his Excellency, Governor West, from Governor Richards of Wyoming:

(Reads.)

Your letter miscarried. Just received. Woman's suffrage has been in successful operation in Wyoming for twenty-five years. Its tendency is to elevate politics, and secure better public service without any bad social effects.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Varian claims the right, which will be granted under the rule, to close the debate.
{724}
Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I have been somewhat surprised at the tone of the gentleman from Davis County in advising the republicans of their duty. I was pleased, however, at the way in which he appealed to the republicans, for whereas he appealed to the democrats in the way of a threat and told them what dire calamity would fall upon the party; when he did appeal to the republicans, it was to their patriotism and to their honor. At the same time, I do not recognize the right that that gentleman or any other gentleman has upon this question to say how, as republicans, we shall vote. In that which the gentleman has presented from time to time he has assumed the position of being absolutely pure himself; of having the highest motives, and every other man was bound by some paltry party pledge. Every other man has been bound by something which appeals only to his political ambition, and he alone of all who have appeared here has stood out filled with honor and integrity. Why, in looking at the position that he assumes, I almost could exclaim with Job_

Mr. BUTTON. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. I do not think there is any use of one man abusing another in this debate. He is not speaking to the motion in any shape or manner. He is talking to another gentleman upon this floor.

Mr. CANNON. The gentleman can make his speech after I am through.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman has not any right to castigate any member on the floor.

Mr. CANNON. How is that?

The PRESIDENT. One member should not cast personal reflections on the floor on another member.

Mr. CANNON. What is the ruling of the chair?

The PRESIDENT. The ruling of the chair is that these personal reflections that have been going on are not proper.

Mr. CANNON. That being true, and nothing personal having been said in the past by any one, I shall discontinue my remarks upon that particular subject.

Mr. FRANCIS. Mr. President, I was going to ask a question. Should not this delegate be allowed the same latitude as Mr. Roberts and others have upon this position? Those men were not asked to sit down or stopped when they were talking this way.

Mr. ROBERTS. Let him go on.

The PRESIDENT. Gentlemen of the Convention, I look upon this matter as somewhat serious. Mr. Roberts has made no personal mention of anybody here. It is true, his remark was a general one upon the whole Convention, but Mr. Cannon takes Mr. Roberts or mentions him almost specially in this matter, and points him out and speaks to that end, and I think it is an improper thing for us to do. These matters have gone too far in that direction already. [Applause.]

Mr. CANNON. I say, this having been the first time that personal allusion has been made by any member in this debate, I withdraw my remarks. [Laughter.] One thing, however, Mr. President, has been said, and that is, that the people of Utah have never had this question before them on its merits, that it has never been discussed, Now, for the first time we have wise men who appear and who consider this subject. Is that a fact? I deny the assertion, and I say that he who asserts it casts a reflection upon the men who, in the past, granted to women in the Territory of Utah the right of suffrage. I claim that in the body of men who gave first the right of suffrage to the women of Utah were men who were the peers of any man upon this floor, were men whose wisdom, whose knowledge, if not their oratory, whose works, as evidenced by that which {725} they performed for this Territory and this commonwealth, will compare with any who are here, or probably any who shall come after, and when the assertion is made, that those men thoughtlessly, without due consideration, gave to women the right of suffrage, I deny the assertion and declare that it is absolutely untrue. I claim that, as has been asserted before, the sentiment which has been aroused in this community at present, is one which arose principally from the statements made upon this floor; that it was here that the sentiments originated, and that while, perhaps, in the breasts of many outside, that feeling lay dormant, and that it has only been awakened as has been

stated, at the same time, I claim that the proceedings that have taken place here have aroused it, and that there are still causes as well as those which appear upon the surface. The gentleman from Salt Lake County who spoke this morning in favor of deferring this matter, takes a different position from that which he assumed the other day. When this record is made of that which is said, my speeches placed side by side will read alike, and will not contradict each other. The gentleman declared the other day that he had heard from his constituents, that upon the stump in the twenty-seven precincts of this county, he had stood before the people and had advocated equal suffrage, that the sentiment was satisfactory to his constituents, and yet to-day he gravely rises in his place and says he has not heard from his constituents and desires to wait to hear from them.

Mr. JAMES. May I ask the gentleman a question?

Mr. CANNON. Certainly.

Mr. JAMES. Did the gentleman from Salt Lake make the statement that he raised those questions in the twenty-seven precincts in this county? I understood you to say so.

Mr. CANNON. The gentleman stated that in the precincts where he stumped in this county, and that was nearly all of them, he took the position that he favored absolutely the granting of woman's suffrage.

Mr. JAMES. Did he make the statement on this floor?

Mr. CANNON. Yes, sir; and a reference to his speech will show it.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I will submit_the gentleman is right here. He is not making any denials of it.

Mr. SQUIRES. I trust the gentleman will not be interrupted. I will reply to him woen he gets through if I have permission.

Mr. CANNON. I claim it is not at this time only that which appears upon the surface, and while I favored yesterday, and favor to-day, deferring this and going into the committee of the whole, because by so doing we would not displace it in its position on the calendar, at the same time, I would not favor this motion to recommit. There is an element in this community, as there is in every community, which takes a stand and seeks to entrench itself, that which has been referred to before as the liquor element; and I have it from a member upon this floor who stated to me that he knew a man who deals in liquors who had said that he would be willing to write his check for five hundred dollars if woman's suffrage could be defeated in this Convention.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I am opposed to the appointment of this special committee, in the first place, for the reason that if it is recommitted at all now, it should go to the committee on elections and suffrage, the gentlemen who have had this question under consideration since their appointment. They were some nineteen days, Mr. President_or until the nineteenth day, at least,

of this session before they made their report upon this question. Now, the gentleman comes in here with a proposition to undo this work and to {726} refer that matter back to them with instructions to come in and report on something entirely different from what they have reported. The gentlemen upon this floor claim that it is only fair to them to do this work, for the reason that they have an opportunity to vote in favor of submitting the article in a separate proposition. I ask the gentlemen if they will not go on record now when they vote for committing this proposition directly upon the proposition of a separate submission of this article? I am glad they will have an opportunity to place themselves on record in this way. I take it that every person that votes for this will vote in favor of separate submission, and as that is the absolute instruction to the committee, and whether it goes to the committee on suffrage or to a special committee, they would have to make the same finding and same report in line with the instruction of this body.

Mr. BOWDLE. May I ask the gentleman a question? How would that put us on record as opposing_simply voting for a resubmission?

Mr. HART. Why, that is the very issue, Mr. President, that we vote upon, is to instruct them to come in with a separate article. If that is not a sufficient way to put you on record when you vote either for or against this main proposition on the ayes and noes, you can go on record there. You can defeat that proposition if you wish to there and then have the proposition come up in a different way. Why, Mr. President, they talk about the advantage and disadvantage of this situation in putting themselves on record. I ask you what would be the result if this committee are appointed and instructed to bring in a proposition for separate submission? Why the result would be simply this: After we voted it down we would then have no report before us. We would have nothing to act upon, and we would have to go to work and go over this whole ground from beginning to end. I am, therefore, Mr. President, opposed to the separate submission.

The assertion has been made at numerous times upon the floor of this house that there has been no discussion of this question. If there was no discussion of the question last fall, it was the entire fault of those who are opposed to woman suffrage. It was not because of those who favored it. One of my colleagues from the county that I come from, referred yesterday to the fact that he had not heard the matter discussed in our county. I want to tell him that this issue was talked from every platform in every precinct in our county. I never made a speech during my canvass as a delegate for this Convention, but that it was made a prominent feature of the evening, and not one dissenting voice was heard to my knowledge upon this question. The gentleman from Davis asks why should men shrink from the issue? I ask him who it has been that has been shrinking from this proposition all along? I hold, sir, that it is in poor taste coming from the other side of the house to talk about shrinking. If it had not been for a cowardly shrinking upon this question, there would have been more discussion upon this proposition last fall, and the only reason that it was not discussed was because there was a shrinking. I do not refer to the gentleman from Davis County as being one of the shrinkers, or shirkers, but I say even in his case, that this proposition might have been sprung, that this Coxey movement might have been agitated and brought on a little earlier in the day, and not have waited until the eleventh hour. The gentleman has arraigned the motives of myself and of every other democrat upon this floor. In the first place he has arraigned the motives of the democratic convention, as well as the republican convention. He says that the democratic convention put that plank in its platform {727} for mere claptrap and

expediency purposes. I want to say that I was a member of that convention, I know a great many other gentlemen who were members of that convention, and I know their motives. I know the motives of the gentlemen, many of them, who were on the committee that framed this proposition.

There was Captain Ransford Smith (honor be to his name and to his memory), who was in favor of this proposition, because he believed in it and as he expressed it, because he had always believed in the proposition. Mr. Thurman and other gentlemen were members of that committee, and while I am not prepared to speak as to the private motives of the members of that convention, I do know the motives of some of them, and I know that they voted for it as a proposition in that platform because they believed in it. The gentleman goes further. We have given him so much rope in this Convention and have submitted so long to his arrogance that he comes in this morning and denounces his democratic associates here as peanut politicians, as I understand it, and he says we are holding back here for the purpose of putting republicans in the hole. I deny it, sir, and I say for one that I have no such purpose and I have not seen anything in my democratic associates to make me believe that they entertain any such idea. I ask, Mr. President and gentlemen of this Convention, “Upon what meat doth this our Caesar feed, that he has grown so great?” as to come here and challenge the motives and purposes of members on this floor and of the democratic party of this Territory? Why, gentlemen have actually had to come upon this floor as I have and deny that they had improper motives. I say, Mr. President, that it is a shame that any member of this house should be called upon to stand here and deny that unworthy motives have actuated him in the stand that he has taken.

Mr. LOW (Cache). Mr. President, I desire to say a few words in regard to my opposition to the propoosition presented by the gentleman from Salt Lake (Mr. Varian), for consideration this morning. First, I deem it irregular, as explained by my colleague from Cache County, who has just taken his seat. Second, it passed the committee of the whole with just such a form of rider in different language from that which was presented by the honorable gentleman from Salt Lake and was defeated by a large majority in that committee. If that committee had seen fit to offer its opinion upon this proposition, it would have referred or recommitted or recommended it to the Convention, with a suggestion that it be recommitted to the committee in which it originated. That committee having been ignored in the form of this motion presented this morning, it is irregular.

If there could have been any objection to the proposition it might have been put in a regular form, gone through the regular routine of business to the committee who rendered the majority report on the 19th day of our session, just two weeks ago. I call your attention to the fact that they could have had this question referred back, as was the question from the committee on education, for simplification and modification, but there was not that consideration given to it. The zealous defenders of that report attempted to have a special day set for the consideration of their report out of the regular order. The gentlemen who were considered to be fair on the floor of this Convention, should have been willing in their zeal to pass upon the question that it should come up in its regular order. Gentlemen, the committee submitted to this with very good grace. It did not come before the Convention for consideration for seven days. In that time there was ample time, I say, for the consideration by the opponents of this question to {728} raise the issue which

is now sought to be raised upon this floor. We had a substitute or an amendment to this question when it was in committee of the whole, which denied all suffrage to the female sex.

A majority of this Convention promptly repudiated any such an amendment, as did they also the attempt on last Monday to introduce here a substitute providing that this question should go for separate consideration to the people for their acceptance or rejection. I too have heard with a great deai of wonder the expression that has been made upon this floor that gentlemen who were elected by the votes of the people of this Territory as delegates to this Convention have not heard the question discussed during the campaign. I want to state to the gentlemen who have made these assertions that the very question which they have denied having heard was the question which I cut out of the newspaper at the time_the two clauses referring to this question of equal suffrage to women, and placed them in my hat, and I want further to call the attention of gentlemen upon this floor, who have come from other counties from that from which I came, and in whose counties I was permitted to speak from the rostrum in favor of woman's suffrage, and the differences of opinion between the two national parties, if it was not a question for immediate and ample discussion before their constituency? If I am wrong, if they can state that I evaded the question in their own counties, I desire that they shall rise upon this floor and make it known. On the other hand, I state here, without fear of contradiction, that it was made the issue. Because gentlemen like the honored and eloquent gentleman from Davis County had preceded me in different sections of country, representing the same party that I represented upon the stump, and covered questions of importance and difference between the two parties nationally. It was only left to me, at the suggestion of the chairman and members of the county committee, from which I went, that I should follow with something different and they themselves_not of my own choice, but they themselves assigned the difference of position assumed by the two parties on the woman suffrage question, and it was made an issue with not less than two meetings a day for a whole week. That is my position upon that matter. I can also reiterate what my colleague from Cache County has stated, that when I had the opportunity of presenting it before my constituents in the county from which I came, I there told them my position on this matter. That was the opportunity to deny me the privilege of representing them in this Convention, if they so chose.

Oh, how have the mighty fallen, Mr. President? The able champion of one proposition here was compelled to resort to a subterfuge in a suggestion that has been made the_first argument that we have presented by his eloquence on this floor was against suffrage for woman at all. Now, we have the same question championed by the same individual that it should come before the people as a separate clause. I object to it more particularly because the gentleman has assumed to change his position in the least, and furthermore, I wish to further the expression given vent to by the gentleman from Davis County, that had the position of the two parties, as far as the majority is concerned upon this floor, been reversed, I express my personal opinion, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, that this question would not have hung fire so long as it has. He appealed to the gentleman of the majority_appealed to their patriotism, when he said “You will not lose anything,” hoping that from that majority this question would be pushed through, because there was a force and power in the majority against the minority. I am against the question {729} being submitted as proposed by the gentleman from Salt Lake.

Mr. HEYBOURNE. Mr. President, I move we take a recess until 2 o'clock.

The question being taken on the motion for a recess, the Convention divided and by a vote of 48 ayes to 51 noes, the motion was rejected.

Mr. MURDOCK (Beaver). Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I realize this great fact, that I am surrounded with critics, and I only crave earnestly the voice and the language of some of my colleagues here upon this floor. But it is, I believe you will agree with me, as I stated when I was on the floor perhaps a week ago, that this was a very important question. I so regard it to-day. That I do not think the time is thrown away in looking at it and investigating this matter, and that the committee on finance_perhaps there may not be another man upon the floor that will be in harmony with me, but that his suspicions may be relieved, I am willing to spend my time gratis upon this question from first to last, so that if we have thrown away time, I am willing to throw away mine. I do not know whether there is any one else that will do so or not. I am opposed to the motion that has been presented here this morning, for this reason: I am pledged to my constituents. I am one representing in connection with my colleague one county, and I know what their minds were then, and I have not heard anything to change it from them yet, and I am opposed to it, because they are opposed to it and got my pledge that I would not accept a separate bill to be placed before the people and voted upon, but that they wanted it in the Constitution. I was willing to give my pledge that it should be placed in the Constitution. I also pledged myself that I should labor in the interest of equal suffrage with all, both sexes, irrespective of sex or any other thing that might be brought forward, and as we investigate this matter we find that it becomes a very important matter.

It has been stated here that this feeling that now exists throughout the county is something that has sprung spontaneously in the minds of the people. There is always a starter for anything that amounts to any importance, and it is started upon this floor, gentlemen. It started right upon this floor_this opposition, and the friends of those opposed have talked for and against, and it has gone broadcast throughout the country, and of course people are taking sides now. There are many people that are led away with fine speeches. I realize this fact, but that does not make a truth. A truth may be told in very mild and very easy and very unimpressive terms, and there are many people perhaps it would not affect, but nevertheless it is a truth, and I do not care in what eloquent terms a matter may be set before a people nevertheless it may be an error, although it may impress those that have been here. Now, I was at both conventions. I was at Provo and the building was as full at it possibly could be, both in the gallery and on the floor, and what was the feeling there manifest? They endorsed it with a rush, with a zest that is uncommon in most meetings, but it was nevertheless here in the theater, here in Salt Lake, perhaps a week afterwards. I was at that as well, and everybody was there that could get there. The house was jammed from garret to the parquette, as full as it could be got, and the people there partook of the spirit that was manifested, and what was the main feature? One of the main features in both conventions was the woman's suffrage, and then for men to come here and tell that they had heard but little or nothing about it; it was put into their papers throughout the length and {730} breadth of the land, and that instead of opposition, and every man that has spoken in the southern part of the Territory, his attention was especially called to that feature of the situation, and it is

upon that ground that I was nominated and was elected to come here and serve the people, and there is no feature, gentlemen_there is no feature that womankind admires more than a brave man, and there is no feature that I admire more than I do a brave man. I am not afraid of opposition. I am not afraid of contest. If anybody can fetch anything that is reasonable to overcome me, why am willing to submit as I have said_give an error for a truth,

We have heard from the different states where they have had woman's suffrage and it is all in favor of woman's suffrage. There is a terrible hue and cry because it happens to be brought forth here in Utah. It is not new in Utah. We understand how the matter stood years ago, and we understand very well how it will exist now. We cannot help any_either men or women from acting foolishly when they get the ballot in their possession. We cannot help that, but I say it is equal and I say it is debarring one portion of our community of going forth and taking part in the interests of the common country. Are not the women equally interested in the family circle and in everything that goes to build up a state_are not they as much interested as are the men, the fathers, the sons, the brothers? Are they not? I say they are, and they should have a voice, and when we talk about intelligence, we are willing to admit that they are equal_    

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Murdock, you are getting away from the question. The question is to commit this thing.

Mr. MURDOCK (Beaver). Well, I am not in favor of it [laughter]. When it was sought to give the colored man his franchise, was there a proposition sprung that they should have the privilege of saying whether they wanted their franchise? No. It was given to them without asking them. There was a declaration made that they should have their franchise, and I say we could certainly pay as much respect and repose as much confidence in the woman part of our community as was bestowed upon them, and for this reason, and I say emphatically that the excitement that has circulated among the people has sprung from this floor. Here is where the seeds were planted, and here is where that started from.

And, as I saw in the paper that is printed in one of the adjoining counties, an individual rose up in a meeting and said that if that went into the platform_woman suffrage_what would he do? He would go to Washington and he would use his utmost influence to defeat the statehood bill. That is the feeling I presume amongst many men. I am for statehood and I am for equal rights, and I want both parties, both male and female, to have equal rights in this matter, and if they have got intelligence, let us use it, it is ours, we should have it. Are we afraid of numbers of voters? Perhaps it might augment our numbers to double the number. That is to-day, and what would that amount to? Perhaps eighty thousand voters. Are we not associated with states that have their millions of voters and they are controlled proportionately_reasonably, and I say I am opposed to the bill to postpone or to put it into the hands of any other committee. It would be paying great disrespect to the majority report that was brought here, and consequently I am thoroughly opposed to such a move. I am not afraid of the arguments that are brought forth. I do not care how eloquent they are, but I am in favor of justice; I am in favor of right, and I am in favor of bringing my wife, my mother, my daughter, up to my side and giving her a fair show, and if she is ready and willing to act reasonably and consistent and not ask more than {731} what would be consistent in her condition, why I will risk her. I will risk her with men.

Mr. HAMMOND. Mr. President, I am opposed to this proposition. I have listened and kept my seat nearly during all these days of this discussion, sometimes with pain and sometimes with pleasure. More often with pain. I think that it is well that we cease playing to the gallery and the gods and come down here and play to actual men and women, that have this matter before us to dispose of. Now, I submit this, that the light comes from the south in this hemisphere. I have been where I had to look north for the sun, but in this latitude we look south for the light. Now, if they will hearken to the voice of San Juan [laughter] they will come to the light; there will be no trouble at all, but this dark shadow that has arisen in the north seems to have paralyzed a great many of the people and some members on the floor of this Convention. I remember in my boyhood that the gunners on Long Island had to go out in their little batteries and stick out a whole lot of stool ducks to decoy the ducks flying from the east, and down they would light on those stool pigeons or ducks, and every last one of them was killed. So I look upon this largely. It is a stool pigeon set up to decoy the ducks, whether they are democrats or whether they are republican ducks, they calculate to kill them. Now, I submit we close this thing up and go into business and do something to justify our positions here upon this floor.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I am opposed to the article presented here submitting this as a separate proposition to the Constitution for the women to vote on separately, and I will give a few of my reasons. As my friend Mr. Creer, said, this question of woman's suffrage has been before the people for the last seven months. I know it has been before the people of Emery County, and was constantly kept before them by the uncertainty of the political complexion of this Convention, even up to the organization of the Convention. And if the people of Salt Lake or any other important center have lost sight of it, it is their own fault and not the {732} fault of the people of the Territory. It is said now that this question has not been discussed; I know better. It has not only been discussed by the people, but was discussed in the papers. The Herald claimed the proposition in the democratic platform was emphatic and meant just what it said, and that the few words put in the republican platform did not mean anything. The Tribune came to the rescue

and said that they meant just what they said and were just as emphatic as the democrats dared make it, and that the women of Utah should have the right of suffrage. We are asked in an excited manner to pause for a few days to be heard and that it would be an insult to the ladies not to wait on them. I claim, Mr. President, it is no insult to go ahead and do our business and our duties, but on the contrary it is an insult from those who are agitating this question to ask this Convention to stop and wait, I think. It is child's play to come in now and say, “I forgot all about it, and we demand that you wait on us.” It is said by the opposition that it will endanger statehood. I do not believe it. I believe the people of Utah are sincere in their demand, and if all could be heard from, we would have an overwhelming majority in favor of it, and the song that has been sung for the last twenty-five years about here, is out of place at the present time. Those who are against woman's suffrage are insulted if they are asked to change their minds on this question, but they demand in excited terms that those in favor of it do change theirs. I am opposed to submitting this question as a separate article, and shall vote against it.

Mr. PIERCE. Mr. President, I move we take a recess until 2 o'clock.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President, I move as an amendment to that, that we do not take a recess until_

The PRESIDENT. The motion before the house is to take a recess until 2 o'clock.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). An amendment is in order,

Mr. VAN HORNE. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order.

The PRESIDENT. I do not see how it is possible to amend a motion to take a recess.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I am only amending it as to time.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, I thought it was already decided that we should not take a recess.

The question being taken on the motion of Mr. Pierce, the roll was called and showed the following result:

AYES_44.
Adams
Bowdle
Button
Christiansen
Crane
Cushing
Eichnor
Eldredge
Emery
Gibbs

NOES_52.
Allen
Anderson
Barnes
Boyer
Buys
Call
Cannon
Chidester
Clark
Coray

ABSENT_10.

The President declared the motion to take a recess lost.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I move to lay this motion on the table.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. That requires a suspension of our rules.

Mr. ANDERSON. Gentlemen, I had the floor before that motion was made.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman had the floor.

Mr. VARIAN. The point of order takes precedence of a discussion.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman's point of order is, I think, well taken.

Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I am certainly opposed to this proposition submitting this clause back to a special committee. The committee that had this under consideration considered this question well. The same proposition was suggested and we considered it well, and that committee was composed of fifteen members, and twelve out of the fifteen reported in favor of the article as it is presented to us, and now this proposition is to refer it to a special committee, instructing them to
draft an article for the very purpose of submitting this to the people. Well, I am opposed to submitting this to the people, because I think that it will intensify and prolong this bitter acrimonious feeling that has been engendered throughout this discussion. I claim that it has been before the people, that they have had ample time to consider it. As it has been stated, it was contained in both platforms of the parties. We are all of us elected on that very platform. Upon that very principle we were elected, with the very expectation of putting that into the Constitution, and just so long as it was thought to be a foregone conclusion that it would be incorporated in the Constitution, there was no opposition.
I claim that we were sent here for the very purpose of inserting that in the Constitution, and if we do so we will have done our duty, and all of this feeling, all of this bitterness that has been engendered, will cease. Those that are opposing it will accept the situation, but if we submit this to the people, why, it will only intensify it. It will keep getting worse and worse and probably the very fears that are expressed, they might be the means of accomplishing; if these fears are well founded we do not deserve statehood. We do not want it. I say, put this into the Constitution and

if the fears are well founded, vote it down. We do want statehood, but I claim that we were sent here specially upon that platform. It has been before the people. They have considered it, and I, for one, every place where I spoke, specially pledged myself, and besides this, I think it is right by conviction and I can consistently take no other course. The opposition appeal to the very worst attributes of our suspicion and distrust. I do not think that they believe the fears that they have expressed themselves. It is being most bitterly fought by those who are opposed to prohibition, probably because they think that the vote of the {734} women will endanger them, but they dare not express that fear, but they try and work upon the suspicion and distrust of the people. I am opposed to this proposition and in favor of the original article and will vote against any amendment and all substitutes that may come up.

(The President here called Mr. James to the chair.)

Mr. KIESEL. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, Mr. Creer has alluded to absentees. I was at home several days. I was ill, I did not, as he intimated and insinuated_am I right, did you allude to me on account of absence? I was away several days.

Mr. CREER. No, sir; not specially, I was speaking of members from Salt Lake.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order.

Mr. KIESEL. That was in your mind, wasn't it?

Mr. CANNON. My point of order is that it is desired of the Convention not to have any personalities.

The PRESIDENT pro tem. Mr. Kiesel, do you rise to a question of personal privilege_some explanation?

Mr. KIESEL. All right.

The PRESIDENT pro tem. You must be in order.

Mr. KIESEL. The gentleman has alluded to absentees. I am one of those absentees, and I want of course to set myself right before this Convention.

The PRESIDENT pro tem. You have the privilege of proceeding, Mr. Kiesel, under that.

Mr. KIESEL. I was at home on account of illness. I did not agitate. I did not attend any convention at home. Another gentleman already speaking probably had received already garlands and flowers, but the sentiment has undergone a change in all this discussion that we have had here in this Convention; why gentlemen claim and parties claim for themselves that all these matters have been discussed, I have yet failed to see. There is not one of them that has admitted and said that women are in favor of it. I hold that the women of Utah are not in favor of it. I admit that there is a society existing in Utah_a very estimable body of ladies_the Female Relief

Society, an adjunct of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and those are the ladies that have worked up sentiment, while on the other side there is a large body of ladies that do not want, and are not in favor of woman's suffrage.

Mr. FRANCIS. Mr. President_

Mr. KIESEL. It is no use mincing matters. This is the sentiment that prevails in Utah, and I simply give expression to it.

Mr. FRANCIS. I wish to say that this gentleman is proceeding to a great latitude under question of privilege.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Oh, let him do it, let him do it, Mr. Francis.

Mr. KIESEL. The sober second thought is asserting itself in Utah, and gentlemen dare not_on the other side they dare not submit it to the vote of the people. I challenge them_they dare not do it. They know they would get beaten. The sentiment in Utah I have asserted is undergoing a change. It was never discussed from the stump in Ogden, and gentlemen here in Salt Lake admit the same thing, so far as Salt Lake City is concerned. In the centers of population that was simply not taken any notice of. Now, we desire to have it submitted as a separate article, and I am certainly in favor of having it thus submitted. As one of the committee on elections and suffrage, why, I am not taking any exceptions because this matter is not referred back to our committee again. I think our committee now, after all the discussion that has been had here, should not act in this matter. I am in favor of leaving it to the president to appoint a committee of five. Consequently, I am endorsing Mr. Varian's proposition, and will so vote.
{735}
Mr. JOLLEY. May I ask the gentleman a question? I understood you to say that Relief Societies of a certain denomination in Utah were the ones that agitated this woman's suffrage, and ask the question if you have attended any of those meetings, or have you any statistics in your pockets to show to this Convention that that is the case?

Mr. KIESEL. No; I have not, but then that is admitted generally, and I do not suppose the ladies themselves will deny that, because most of the ladies that appeared on this floor here, I believe, belonged to that very estimable body of ladies, who have been doing a great deal of good in a charitable way and I am afraid who are now getting into deep water of going into politics.

Mr. JOLLEY. That is your own suspicion.
    
Mr. KIESEL. That is all, of course. The President here resumed the chair.

Mr. ALLEN. Mr. President, I now move the previous question, except that Mr. Varian may have the opportunity to close this debate.

Mr. THOMPSON. I second the motion.

Mr. CANNON. I do not know; I made quite a number; I did not keep track of them. I could tell by going back and looking over our bills, perhaps.

Mr. SQUIRES. Is that your answer.

Mr. CANNON. Yes, sir. May I be permitted to ask the gentleman a question? I would like to ask Mr. Squires whether or not you did not say that had you not advocated woman suffrage you believed that other men would have been elected instead of those who were?

Mr. SQUIRES. I did that, sir.

Mr. CANNON. That is all.

Mr. SQUIRES. And I still believe that that thing might have happened in this county, but that is not the question at issue, Mr. President. The question that Mr. Cannon was raising was whether or not I knew the sentiment of this county and the district which I represented. I believed, sir, when I came here, that I did. I believed it as other gentlemen upon this floor now believe that they represent, as one gentleman said here, every man, woman, and child in his county. I believed that. I take occasion to say, sir, that since the first day that the debate opened upon this subject upon the floor of this house, I had not met until last evening a single man of all the men that I have met who favored the putting of this question of woman suffrage into the Constitution, except as a separate article.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. The gentleman is not speaking to a personal privilege now, and the motion for the previous question is in order. He only got the floor for that purpose.

The PRESIDENT. I think the point of order is well taken.

Mr. SQUIRES. Very well, Mr. President, if the gentleman from Salt Lake desires to shut me off at this point I will cease. It is something that I can reciprocate later on, and the gentleman from Salt Lake will remember it.
{736}
The PRESIDENT. Shall the main question be now put?

Mr. SQUIRES. Previous question.

Mr. ELDREDGE. Ayes and nays.

Mr. RICHARDS. I arise to a point of order, and while on my feet I desire to say as a matter of personal privilege_

Mr. SQUIRES. I call the gentleman's attention to the fact that he is out of order.

Mr. RICHARDS._that when any gentleman on this floor arises to a point of order, he should not thereby put himself in a position, where he can be justly censured or accused of trying to choke any man off.

Mr. SQUIRES. I arise to a point of order.

Mr. RICHARDS. I have a right to state my position.

Mr. SQUIRES. The gentleman from Salt Lake is clearly out of order.

Mr. RICHARDS. Here is a motion for the previous question and I simply asked for that question. I simply say that it is unjust to say that_    

Mr. SQUIRES. It is not debatable.

The PRESIDENT. Shall the main question be now put?

Mr. ELDREDGE. Ayes and nays.

Mr. ROBERTS. What is the question?

The PRESIDENT. The previous question.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, Mr. Varian reserved the right to close the debate.

The PRESIDENT. He closes after this question is taken.

The roll was called on the motion for the previous question and showed the following result:

AYES_51.
Allen    
Anderson    
Barnes

NOES_39.
Adams
Bowdle
Button
Crane
Cushing
Eichnor
Eldredge
Emery
Farr
Gibbs
Goodwin
Green
Haynes
Hill
Hyde
Ivins
James
Kiesel
Keith
Kimball, Weber
Lambert
Lund
Mackintosh
Maloney
Murdock, Beaver
Murdock, Summit
Page
Peterson, Grand
Preston
Ryan
Sharp
Shurtliff
Spencer
Squires
Stover
Strevell
Van Horne
Wells
Whitney.

The president declared Mr. Allen's motion lost.

Mr. Varian was excused from voting.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, inasmuch as this motion is clearly lost, to save time, I move we take a recess until half-past two o'clock.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President, I move as an amendment to that, that we do not take a recess until we dispose of the motion before the house. There is plainly an attempt made here to delay this matter over to-day.

The motion of Cannon was agreed to, and the Convention then, at 12:43 p. m., took a recess until 2:30 o'clock p.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

The Convention re-assembled at 2:30 o'clock p. m., President Smith in the chair.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, in what few remarks I make I shall endeavor to respect the wise admonition of the chair and avoid all personal allusions. I certainly have no desire to use any acrimonious language. There has been too much bitterness indulged in already, and I shall say nothing to augment the stream of gall and wormwood. I would prefer to say to these troubled waves of thought and feeling, “Peace; be still.” I disclaim all bitterness, so far as my remarks during these debates are concerned. What raillery or sarcasm I have used has been in the spirit of pleasantry. It was good-natured irony, and it was very far from my purpose to wound the feelings of anyone.

I am opposed to the motion to recommit. It means delay, and is not necessary. The current agitation against woman suffrage is merely local. Whether it originated on the floor of this Convention or outside, does not matter. The women of Utah understand what suffrage means. They are not as ignorant of the subject as some suppose. They enjoyed the elective franchise for seventeen years, and voted again and again. Can it be conceived that this could be, and the question of woman suffrage not be discussed upon its merits in their homes? Moreover, there is a woman's paper published in this city, one of the first of its kind established west of the Missouri river. For many years it has permeated the homes of most of the women of Utah. It keeps them in touch with the leading women of the nation_with the thoughts, acts and aspirations of the champions of woman suffrage the world over.

My experience in politics is limited, but I took an active part in the campaign which resulted in the election of you gentlemen and myself to this Convention. Woman suffrage was mentioned repeatedly by speakers, and it was approved and applauded when mentioned. I know that men are sincere when they arise here and say they feel bound by the pledges embodied in the platforms upon which they were elected. It is wrong to question their integrity, to accuse them of cowardice and impute to them improper motives.

I call in question the motives of no man. That is not my style of argument. I am not in favor of the motion of Mr. Varian, but I would not impute to him an improper motive in making it. I do not say that the object in view is to work unnecessary delay, but I do say that in my opinion that would be the effect of it. It would mean that this Convention must wait here, bound {738} hand and foot, until a few agitators had had time to get out among the people, work up an excitement in their particular locality, and bring such a pressure to bear upon wavering members that the anti-suffragists would gain a majority. It seems to me that these agitators are not half so anxious to hear from the people as they are to have the people hear from them.

The vote taken at a matinee at the Grand opera house in this city has been referred to as indicative of the popular feeling among the women of Utah upon this question. A majority of those present voted against woman suffrage. But what was the character of that majority? I have a little daughter ten years old who attended that matinee. She came home and told me she had voted against woman suffrage. I asked her why she had done so. She replied, naively, “Because a woman told me to.” [Laughter.] That is how they obtained the majority. Some lady anti-suffragist acted as a steering committee for these little, innocent children, who did not know what they were doing. It reminded me of the schoolboy who was asked: “Which is the largest city in the world?” “Chicago,” he answered, and when asked for his authority, said a Chicago man told him so. [Laughter.]

But I realize that I have no right to argue. I am lacking in “the logical sense;” I am not a

philosopher, but only a poet, I am told. I do not claim to be even a poet. I am only a lover of poetry, but one, I trust, who has a proper appreciation of the poetic faculty. Poets, gentlemen, are not mere rhymsters, not mere sentimentalists. A poet is one who sees into the the heart of things, and is capable of leaping by intuition to a correct conclusion, while the philosopher, or mere orator, is groping in the mazes of his own fallacy. [Applause.]

Again, I am compared to a mountain peak, “the proudest of them all.” I disclaim that honor also. I am only a humble foot-hill. But there are mountain peaks, towering intellects, in this Convention, to whom I defer and with whom I fraternize. For them I accept the comparison. And let me remind you that it is the mountain peaks that catch the first glimpses of the rising sun, while the valleys, where stand the anti-suffragists, are still shrouded in darkness. [Applause.]

They tell us that woman suffrage in the Constitution will imperil statehood. I do not believe it. But if it should, what of it? There are some things higher and dearer even than statehood. I would rather stand by my honor, by my principles, than to have statehood, if I must sacrifice my honor and my principles to obtain it. If Utah is to be immolated for standing by her principles, for enlarging the borders of liberty, let the sacrifice be made, let her be bound upon the altar, let the high priest of tyranny come forth and plunge the knife into her breast. She cannot perish in a nobler cause than that of freedom and equal rights. But the dagger that strikes at her heart shall be fashioned into a scepter for her hands, and the blood of her martyrdom shall rise as an offering to offended justice and become the seed of her future glory.

Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. President, I favor the granting of the desire that has been expressed to recommit upon this ground: I was in favor yesterday of extending the time that was asked and fixing a day for which this question should be heard. It matters not how small a minority may be. The smaller the minority the more tenacious I would be in regard to granting to them the same rights and the same privileges that I would ask if I was in like circumstances. It would have not been unreasonable, in my judgment, to have granted the request yesterday, and I look exactly from that standpoint relative to the motion that is now before us, that it would not be unreasonable {739} or inconsistent to grant the motion. We will lose nothing by it. I presume that there is no gentleman upon this floor that is any more firmly fixed in his purpose than I am and I do not fear the arguments of my fellowmen or any thing that may be brought to bear, and I look upon all other gentlemen upon this floor just exactly in the same line, and as we had a vast amount of work before us that we could have given our attention to and used the time that we have spent parleying over this question profitably, and allowed a small courtesy to those who asked it, I felt that we could not consistently refuse it, and it is upon this ground, Mr. President and gentlemen on this floor, that I favored the proposition yesterday, and it is upon this ground that I favor it to-day; and there are gentlemen in this hall that have seen me upon other occasions when the minority asked privileges that I was ready to accord it to them, to a reasonable extent; and in fact I am willing to go in the interests of a minority a little beyond reason, that they may not say that there has been any influence brought to bear that curtailed their rights. One or two or three days would not jeopardize the question that we have under consideration, or a week would not jeopardize it, nor it would not delay us in our deliberations when we saw fit to go into committee of the whole and consider that which we have upon the calendar. I think that when we talk about consuming time and wasting time, that we can look to the opposite of the house. When

we begin to talk in a belligerent sense upon this line that there has been more time used in discussing this question by the opposite side of the house than what is known as the majority side, politically speaking. Therefore, in all fairness to the minority upon this proposition, I am going to commit, and trusting what the future may be, I am not afraid of the people, of the public, of the sovereign power.

I am not afraid of the oratory or the argument of the gentlemen of this Convention. I have my ideas and my views upon this. I have my ideas upon men's honor and upon men's pledges, and upon the pledges of the parties, and I hold it constantly before me, and with all of this I am in favor of granting the motion and I shall vote for it.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, if I may be given a minute now it will save explaining my vote. I have heard some very extraordinary things since I have been in this house, one of which was to the effect that if the people of Utah decided to defeat the Constitution because the clause of woman's suffrage was in it, that freedom would be wronged and that she would still rise up and be avenged. It seems to me, Mr. President, that we are wandering away from the subject. If there is anything on earth that American people believe in, it is the rule of the majority. It seems to me it would be no hardship to the people of this State for each one to decide through his ballot whether he wanted woman's suffrage or not, and if we could get a full vote of the men, we would be sure to have a full vote of the women, because the men would vote as the women at home would want them to. We were told just now that a little girl was overpersuaded by a lady in the theater telling her that that was the right thing. Men have been persuaded that way for six thousand years, by having ladies tell them the wrong thing to do, perhaps. Now, there is a great deal of principle in this and a good deal of politics. I think I made my own position clear, and I shall say to all these gentlemen, that if this then was to make a fair proposition to the voters of this State, that they should or should not endorse woman's suffrage, the result, when it was figured up, would show exactly the sentiments of the people of the State of Utah. Suppose a majority of them did not want suffrage. Would that be the {740} rule of the majority to force this down their throats or compel them to vote against the Constitution in order to bear it?

Now, the question to-day is simply on a postponement until Monday morning, in order to give those who want to at least cast their first vote for a submission to the people the chance to put themselves on record that way. The majority can do what they please, because the old law of might can be called in, the same law that governed in the old age before intellects of men began much to expand and before their hearts had begun to expand at all. Is it an unreasonable request? I think not. All around us there are murmurs that the people are dissatisfied. Perhaps there is nothing in it. What harm will be done if we wait until Monday morning? It is now 3 o'clock. We have two more hours this week. Why not take up the regular order and let this thing go by until Monday morning? I will agree for one that I won't say a word if it comes to a vote on Monday morning. I think I can pledge a great number of gentlemen here, although there are a good many gentlemen_and especially on the other side of this question_on the majority side who have spent hours and hours in telling how much time was being wasted here, and my friend from Weber County this morning tried to cap the climax when a motion was made for a recess for an hour and half, he interposed an objection or an amendment that we should remain here to all eternity. They are the fellows that are continuing this thing. It is not us. We do not want anything that is not fair,

and when the final vote comes we will be found all right. And let me tell you it won't make a bit of difference. If you commit this, you can vote us down Monday morning as easily as you can this afternoon. It will have a look as though we had a little consideration. It will quiet the swelling clamors of this city, and that is worth while, because, let me tell you, Mr. President, this city controls the elections in this State. Parties are so nearly divided on the outside that this city is the place to look for a majority. I know what my friends on the other side think. They think by crowding this to an issue that a few republicans will fly the track and that they can go out into the country and say that the republican party did not keep its pledges. They will get fooled on that. That is all their anxiety is to-day, and I say the gentlemen that are trying to crowd this thing onto this Convention this afternoon give away the fact that in their hearts they have a fear to leave it to the people of this State, and that is not republican. That is not American.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). May I ask a question?

Mr. GOODWIN. With great pleasure. I will try to answer.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Will you speak for your party and say that we can have a vote at any time on Monday next, if we will defer this matter?

Mr. GOODWIN. I will speak for this particular one of my party. That is all I have any authority to speak for, but I believe that nine out of ten will agree to the same thing this minute.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). If an agreement can be reached by which a vote can be taken_

Mr. GOODWIN. Without debate on Monday morning?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Yes, I would be very much pleased to do that, but I would even be willing to give you until Monday evening if you would say that then you would bring this matter to a vote.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I made that proposition to keep my friend from Weber making four or five speeches on Monday, but I want to state how I feel first and to say that I believe at the same time it will save a great deal of heartburning, it will save some recriminations and eloquence, if we agree to {741} grant this postponement to-day and come in Monday morning and make a final vote_give us all a chance to vote how we feel first and if you are strong enough (and I have no doubt you are) why press the thing? Then we will have the chance to say to our constituents_“we tried to do the right thing all the way through. We tried to keep our pledges in the platform. We tried to do our duty to the constituents. If you do not like that the next time you have a constitutional convention, get some one to serve you that will do it better.” That is all we ask for. Private_this is an executive session_let me tell you, Mr. President, my honest opinion, that this motion if it is permitted to go until Monday morning will be voted down then and the other motion will be carried, and if it should be left to the people and they should adopt the Constitution and refuse to place woman's suffrage in it, it would not take more than one month to cure the evil, because I think the first Legislature of the State would give it to the ladies with an overwhelming majority. So we are really fighting windmills. This thing is coming. It is only

about eight months off. Do not take any chances, let us have a square deal and go out or in as we can, like honorable men and like Americans, keeping in mind the fact that majorities in this country ought to rule. If we ever lose sight of that, if we ever have enough people to tell somebody else what to do, as the little girl was told in the opera house, and they do it, we will have trouble. Leave it to the whole people. Let them have their say upon it_at least on this proposition. Give us out of courtesy to the weaker party_out of courtesy to the public sentiment of this city, only two hours to-day, for you have only two hours more to work to-night of this week.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. Chairman, I asked the gentleman a question, and he simply has given me the answer, that so far as he is concerned, he is willing to bring this matter to a vote on Monday morning. Of course, I do not take that as being spoken_

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I had no authority to speak for any gentleman here except myself.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President, I take that as not being authoritative for the party which the gentleman represents. What I meant was submitting the proposition on Monday morning, was to submit the whole proposition, that this question might be voted upon at that time, and as the gentleman does not speak for his party, but only for himself, I shall address myself, Mr. President, a few moments to this house. And I say now, that so far as I am individually concerned, with me this question, which is now before the house, is a question or contest of endurance. I purpose to yield no further. I purpose to stand now upon the very platform upon which I was elected, and I ask no indulgence from any gentleman, neither do I expect him to ask any from me. I say now, that so far as I am concerned, there is no gentleman in this house who can say that I have voted to cut off debate: or that I have ever done an act which would stifle free speech. Neither can any gentleman say that I have impugned the motives of any man, whether he be against this proposition or not. I honor the judgment and honest opinion of all mankind, but this matter has reached this point where we must act. If we cannot act this afternoon, the debate will be continued until we do act, if men who are friends of equal suffrage will stand by me upon this proposition.

Mr. ELDREDGE. May I ask the gentleman one question?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). You may.

Mr. ELDREDGE. Did I understand the gentleman to say that he had not voted to cut off debate?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I never have except_

Mr. ELDREDGE. May I then ask {742} you how you voted on the previous question, the last time it was called in this house?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I believe the gentleman is right. On that question I did, because I thought everybody was through except Mr. Varian.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). That is right, Mr. Eldredge. I am speaking on general propositions, and I did vote_I say it frankly, I did vote for the previous question upon that occasion because I believed that everybody was through except possibly myself, and I voted to cut off my own debate, rather than that of any other gentleman. So far as I am individually concerned, I desire to say that there has been upon the part of the opposition some imputation cast upon those delegates who favor equal suffrage. It has been done very cunningly, so that it could be scarcely discovered that an imputation was being cast upon those who stood firmly in the interests of equal suffrage for men and women. I desire now to refer a moment, not personally, or specially, to the argument of the gentleman from Davis_the hero of the hour, he toward whom all eyes have been turned. Two or three times he has made some sort of allusion to somebody, I know not whom it might be. He has spoken in one instance of scurvy politicians and in another instance something respecting peanut politicians. I do not know, gentlemen, whether he means you of the republican party or not. I take it that he does not, because he calls you patriots. So that the reference must be made to some upon this side of the house. Why the necessity of making of remarks of this kind? What is it the gentleman wishes? Does he desire to elevate himself here before the people of this Territory as a perfect Lucrece of virtue? Does he desire to spread the impression that he strides the earth like a Colossus and that all ordinary beings peep between his huge legs to find themselves dishonorable graves? Does he mean to insinuate that men who favor striking the last shackle of political slavery from the limbs of women are scurvy and peanut politicians? I have stood this thing long enough. I care not whether it be the gentleman from Davis County or any other, it makes no difference to me. I stand upon this question upon principle and I am ready to vote upon it. The gentleman says, “wait a little while. Let us hear from the people.” I referred to that upon yesterday. To-day I saw the gentleman get into a barouche, drawn by a pair of white horses, with some ladies, and I presume he went to the theater for the purpose of edifying them. I noticed upon his table, which he had the courtesy to show me, a set of resolutions which he had prepared presumably for that meeting.

Mr. ROBERTS. Excuse me, I did not prepare them.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I asked you if they were yours.

Mr. ROBERTS. I did not tell you I prepared them.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Anyway the resolutions were prepared in advance, and I doubt not those resolutions which were lying here upon this table will be adopted verbatim, and what does it all mean? Are we not here as delegates under oath for the purpose of casting our votes honestly and conscientiously upon this question? Must we refer from this dignified body of men a question which we have had under consideration so long to the people in this uncertain way? What would we know_what can we know if the secretary's desk be lumbered up with petitions, remonstrances, and memorials for woman's suffrage? How do we know_are we to appoint a canvassing board for the purpose of determining the question as to whether they are honestly gotten up or not? Are we to determine {743} the question as to whether the ballot boxes have been stuffed? Are we to determine the question as to whether the particular individuals who

signed these petitions and memorials did it from their honest judgment? Are we to go in this particular question in this unauthenticated manner for the purpose of determining what our action shall be here? The only way by which people can determine the wishes of their constituents is in the regular manner, in the regular order, in our primaries, and in our conventions, and the sentiments of the people as we found them at that time, and then act upon it. Gentlemen, you can see that this thing will lead to interminable trouble and turmoil, heartburnings, and charges, criminations, and recriminations. Upon the one hand, as I stated yesterday, there will be positive assertions that the people of Utah favor woman's suffrage, and upon the other hand, there will be a denial of it. After all, we are here as men upon oath. Shall we not act upon our best judgment? If any man desires to be absolved from his political pledges let him vote upon his conscience and disregard his platform, but to postpone action for the purpose of securing the sentiment of the people in this unauthentic manner is a thing which is unheard of in the annals of history in dignified legislative bodies.

But gentlemen say it is fair and proper that this matter should be submitted to the people separately for the purpose of securing an expression of opinion. To what people? Those who are already enfranchised? A convention is in a limited sense a revolutionary body congregated together for the purpose of forming a new government, by which the people of the particular locality might act. Suppose we submit the proposition separately to the people. Who votes upon the proposition as to whether women shall be enfranchised? Is it not the men? Women have no voice, but they must submit to the majority of the opposite sex. Is this right? It seems to me that the whole question recurs to the proposition, is it right that women should vote? If it be right, why not insert it in the Constitution? If it be wrong, why not vote against the insertion of it in the Constitution and likewise vote against the submission of it to the people?

Now, I want just for a moment to refer to a remark which my colleague from Weber County (Mr. Kiesel) made. He said that the reason why he was not here on yesterday was because he was sick. That was true. I know that he was ill. I went home with him on the evening that the meeting was held at Ogden. He was feeling ill. He did not attend the meeting. He spoke truthfully respecting that matter. He did not go home for the purpose of dodging any issue. But just why he should have made the remark that another gentleman from Weber County went home for the purpose of receiving garlands and flowers is something that I am unable to understand. He knows me as well as I know him. He knows that it was not my expectation to go home for that purpose. He knows, and every man knows, that I did not favor the holding of meetings for the purpose of an expression of opinion upon this question, because I knew the uncertainty of it, and the only advice I gave that meeting was to adjourn and go home and permit the delegates of this Convention to act upon their conscience and upon their honor.

Mr. KIESEL. I want to ask the gentleman a question. I am glad that Mr. Evans is setting himself right here, but he knew that I could not be at the meeting and as his colleague here he also knew that I was lampooned by a shyster lawyer up there in Ogden and he did not have the manhood to stand up and remontrate [*note*].

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. Kiesel need not say that. He need not say that at all. It is not fair and it is not {744} called for. I was not called upon to stand by any one, neither did I do it.

The PRESIDENT. I think this is wholly out of character in the Convention here. The proposition before us is the question of recommitting.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Now, there is one other thing which I desire to refer to and I do that for the benefit of gentlemen from Weber County. It was stated by my colleague (Mr. Driver) the other day upon the floor of the house in something of an excited manner that he understood that only two parties were standing in favor of suffrage. At the time that statement was made it was appalling to me. I did not think it could possibly be correct, but I find after all that he did not miss the mark very far. Aside from another venerable gentleman who has spoken upon this floor, I believe he and I are the only ones who have given any evidence in this Convention of being in favor of the right of women to vote, and to those gentlemen who have departed from their party pledges, and who believe that they have heard the voices of their constituents, I desire to say, before I take my seat, that I hold in my hand a letter just received from Weber County, in which I am informed that eighteen hundred people up to this date in Weber County, demand that a clause giving equal suffrage to women should be inserted in the Constitution. Only a a little more than one hundred less than those who voted for either one of us who now stand upon this floor representing that county_about 1940 was the average vote for each delegate, and they are receiving these signatures daily, and announce that in a short time the number will be very largely augmented. But I care nothing for this even. I only call their attention to it; but I want to call their attention to something else and that is the party platform upon which they and I were elected. I want to read it again. I want to remind them of it, “the democrats of Utah are unequivocally in favor of woman suffrage and the political rights of women equal with men, including eligibility to office, and we demand that such guarantees shall be placed in the Constitution as will secure to the women of Utah these inestimable rights: “and in connection with reminding my colleagues from Weber County of this party pledge which we made and which we advocated, I say, many of us, upon the stump, and even some of those gentlemen to- day who stand here asking that this matter be inserted in a separate clause stood side by side with me upon the stump in the political arena and advocated the same rights which I advocate here, they know it and cannot deny it. If they desire to break their party pledges, if they desire to dishonor themselves, it is all right with me. They do it simply because they believe that in the locality from whence I come the sentiment of the people is against woman suffrage.

Mr. KIESEL. You did not see me there.

Mr EVANS (Weber). I am not referring to Mr. Kiesel. I will say of Mr. Kiesel, that he is consistent in this matter. He told me after his nomination that he was against woman's suffrage. I will never misrepresent any man knowingly, and I believe that he was against it honestly and conscientiously, and he has never heard a word of censure from me respecting that matter. But I want to call attention now in connection with this matter to the able champion against woman's suffrage, and I do it now as though I were talking to democrats. You remember, gentlemen, that in 1892, I believe it was, a political platform was adopted by the democratic national party at Chicago, in which there was a declaration in favor of tariff reform. An election was held, a democratic administration was ushered in. The lower house {745} of Congress passed an act

reforming, as we call it, the tariff, the senate McKinleyized the Wilson bill. The chief executive of the nation wrote a letter to a distinguished gentleman in which, at that time, he branded the act as one of perfidy and dishonor; at that time the able champion against woman's suffrage, agreed with the chief executive of the nation, and so did every democrat throughout the land, among the people, and votes of censure and resolutions denouncing a few democratic senators who stood with the republicans in McKinleyizing that measure were passed. What difference is there between that question and the one we have here now? Is not it an act of perfidy and dishonor, I say, to make pledges, and go before the people and tell them we stand upon those pledges, and then come upon the floor of this house and seek to manufacture sentiment against it_and not only against that, but to manufacture sentiment which will still keep political rivets and chains upon the limbs of women_a sentiment keeping in political slavery the female citizens? Gentlemen, it is the sentiment of the age to throw off the traditions of the past, to give as full and complete measure of liberty to one citizen as to another. Every taxpayer, whether it be man or woman, is entitled to a voice in the government of this country, especially when it comes to the question of taxing her property or incurring public indebtedness, and yet the oratory which has been displayed upon this floor seems to have disturbed the minds of people. A bare fear pervades the locality where we now are. We seem to have forgotten to accord to mankind that which is right and honorable for a mere sentiment. That if it be accorded, forsooth statehood will not be given to Utah. I will not discuss the merits of this question at all, but I want to say this, that I am against the substitute, and against it for the reasons which I have given. I am against it because it is an insult to the committee on elections and suffrage. It is equivalent to saying to them, “You are incapable of reporting to this Convention an article suitable and acceptable to us. We desire the president of the Convention to appoint another and separate committee for the very purpose of doing that which will violate every pledge which we have made.”

I have been informed that my constituents are very much displeased with my course privately as well as publicly. I say to them now that so far as I am concerned if they do not want me here they can send somebody else, but when they sent me upon promises which I made, and ask me not only to violate my pledges and promises, but my conscience, I say to them that I will not obey their commands, and it makes no difference to me what they may think about it. Whether a scurvy or peanut politician, I care not, I shall do that which I believe to be right. I shall not pursue a course here which is irregular to secure the sentiments of people hither and thither and everywhere at irregular and improper elections and methods of expressing opinions. Here upon the streets of your city the bootblacks have petitions of the form which I read yesterday, hailing everyone passing by, asking them to sign that petition for separate submission. What kind of an expression of opinion is that? How are we to determine how many times each individual who is against woman's suffrage is voting in that manner or expressing his opinion? Why, gentlemen, you know when it comes to receiving an expression of opinion of the people, guard it as closely as you may with returning boards, sworn judges of election, with penal laws, punishing violations of the elective franchise_with all that, many of you upon the other side of the house believe that there was very much corruption in the returns of members of the Utah Commission for delegates who are to-day sitting upon this {746} floor and yet to here pause and wait for an unauthentic expression of opinion to come, how can we guard it when we receive it? What guaranty will there be that it is authentic? Who can say that the returns were not stuffed? Who can say that it is an honest expression of the people? Gentlemen, that is utter folly_utter folly.

Permit it to go on if you will. I am informed that a caucus of the republican party was held this noon day and that woman's suffrage lost some three or six of its friends. Whether that be true or not, I do not know and will not charge, but permit this matter to go on if you will from day to day and the first thing you know you will have the people of this Territory all by the ears: I warn you now to act upon your consciences if you do not believe in your pledges. Do that which you believe to be right and honorable, but do not delay this cause for the purpose of receiving information from the people in the manner which is desired by some members of this Convention.

Speaking to the question of the gentleman from Summit just a moment_he believes in according the utmost courtesy to the minority, however small. That may be true. It seems that he desires it now. I remember, however, in the beginning of this Convention, that his sentiments were not just as they are at this time. [Laughter.] And I am utterly astonished at the other gentleman from Salt Lake who now advocates a submission of this question to the people after the speech which he made; and the criticisms of Mr. Cannon upon him were deserving and right. Let that speech be transcribed and it will show that he was in favor of inserting this clause in the Constitution, and no other construction can be placed upon it. Gentlemen, search your own hearts. Look to yourselves and you will find many of you exactly in the same situation.

Mr. LOW (Cache). May I ask the gentleman from Weber a question?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Certainly.

Mr. LOW (Cache). As a prelude to the sentiments expressed, I desire to ask if it was not your statement that the gentleman from Weber (Mr. Kiesel) volunteered information to you that he was opposed to the woman's suffrage question, notwithstanding it was in the democratic platform, is that correct?

Mr. EVANS ( Weber.) Mr. Kiesel did voluntarily tell me that, yes.

Mr. LOW (Cache). Is it your opinion then, Mr. Evans, that he would have given expression to his sentiments, had he not known that it was an issue in the minds of the people, as some gentlemen upon this floor would seem to deny?

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Well, so far as that is concerned, I do not desire to enter into the private conversation between Mr. Kiesel and myself. That would not be proper, but suffice it to say that upon the stump in Weber County in almost every precinct and in the Grand opera house, I advocated equal suffrage for women and every one of these gentlemen knows that I did.

Mr. THURMAN. Did Mr. Kiesel speak against it?

Mr. EVANS (Weber) Not a man spoke against it_not a single one. And what astonishes me more than anything (and I refer to it again), are those friends and colleagues of mine who stood by my side advocating it just as I did, and who are here to-day covertly seeking to defeat it.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). You may.

Mr. DRIVER. Mr. Kiesel told you and he also told me as you stated, but he took special pains I believe not to go out upon the stump and deliver lectures that he was opposed to it. If he had he would not have been here to-day.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). To do justice to Mr. Kiesel, I will say that he told me that he was against it after he was elected. He never did before.
{747}
Mr. KIESEL. You said after I was nominated.

Mr. EVANS ( Weber). If I said after you were nominated I was mistaken.

Mr. KIESEL. And I told you before I was nominated.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I believe he was always opposed to it before he was elected, but he never told me until after he was elected. Now, gentlemen, as I stated in the very beginning, with me this is a question of endurance. I purpose to stay here until this matter be disposed of.

Mr. LEWIS. Mr. President, I do not know whether the gentleman who has just taken his seat_

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. He has spoken once.

Mr. LEWIS. No, sir; I have not spoken on this question.

The PRESIDENT. He has not spoken on this question.

Mr. LEWIS. I had not intended speaking again, and should not again arise to speak, were it not for some of the utterances of the gentleman who has just taken his seat. When he refers to his colleagues upon the stump in the last campaign, whether he has reference to me or not, I do not know, but I think that I was not present at a single meeting during the campaign, with the gentleman from Weber, and I challenge him_    

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I did not mention anybody's name, did I?

Mr. LEWIS. No, sir; I am just merely defending myself. You referred to colleagues from Weber.

Mr. EVANS ( Weber). I will absolve you, if that is what you want to reply to. You were not present with me, but other gentlemen very near you were.

Mr. LEWIS. And I will further state since the statement was made in general of the colleagues from Weber County_

The PRESIDENT. The question before the house is the recommittal of the proposition to a special committee.

Mr. LEWIS. Mr. President, I propose to come to the question, if not directly, indirectly. I want to place myself properly before this Convention after the attitude that I have assumed. Talk about criminations and recriminations, there have also been insinuations, and I do not propose to stand under a single insinuation, if I have the privilege of placing myself properly before this Convention. I defy any gentleman to refer to a single instance, either in private or public, where I stated that my personal convictions were favorable to female suffrage. I have not so stated my convictions. When the democratic party to which I belonged placed this principle in their platform, I accepted it. I came here, gentlemen of the Convention, prepared to vote for that principle being firmly fixed in our Constitution, and my mind did not fluctuate nor change upon the proposition until I heard that some of my constituents in Weber County had changed their sentiments and that if they were so pronounced in favor of female suffrage being placed in the Constitution proper, they now favored the presentation of this subject to the people in a separate article. Hearing this statement, I concluded that I was not above the people. I did not come here to this Convention to represent my sentiments and my views alone. I came here to represent the sentiments and views of my constituents in Weber County, or more properly speaking, in Ogden City. If the people of Ogden, even after they had voted in November in favor of this proposition_if they had occasion to change their sentiments and their opinions in regard to this matter for fear that something would come up by which the Constitution would be voted down, I concluded and took the position yesterday, and take the position {748} to-day, that it is right to wait to find out and to know what the opinion of the people of Weber County is. As I stated, I am not above my party. I do not consider my opinions superior to the opinions of the people whom I represent, and if I can know their sentiments and their thoughts to-day, I stand here prepared to vote that thought and that sentiment, no matter what my convictions are. I have stood upon this floor and stood the opprobrium of being charged with cowardice, but I stood it simply because I found that I was in the same position with the great R. E. Lee of Virginia, when the question of secession came up in 1861, and the question was presented to him; said he, “Gentlemen, if you move forward in this line and undertake to withdraw this state from the Union and to establish the doctrine of secession, you are ruined. I am opposed to it.” Still, having been trained and indoctrinated in the idea of state rights and the power of the state, he said, “Notwithstanding these are my convictions, I will prove true to my duty and I will stand by my state.”

There is an instance where a man, contrary to his convictions, contrary to his intuitions, contrary to every conception of the result of the step that his people were taking, cast them all aside to do his duty. I stand here upon the same platform to-day, and if the people of Utah Territory_if my constituency want female suffrage established in the Constitution, I am prepared to-day to vote for it, and let the consequences be what they may; but if my constituency prefer to have it presented to the people in a separate article and not endanger the Constitution, I stand here prepared to vote for that to-day, and I challenge any man or set of men to question my honor upon this question or upon this proposition.

Mr. LEWIS. I consider that I am the direct representative of the people of Ogden City, and I measure the sentiment of the people of Utah Territory by the sentiment of the people whom I directly represent. I let other men from other counties represent their constituency and I represent my own. I am here to represent the people who elected me. I am to represent their thought, and if that thought is not the major thought of this Convention, it will go down. If the thought of my constituency represented by me is the major thought of this Convention, it will triumph; but I want you to distinctly unstand that I am not putting my opinions and my ideas above my people. When I am called upon to vote my convictions I stand firm and true to my convictions, but when I stand to represent the people, so long as God gives me breath and power I purpose to stand by them and vote their ideas, their thoughts, and their sentiments. This is what I understand by representative democracy. I did not intend, gentlemen, to make any further remarks upon this question, I merely did it in defense of insinuations which were cast out in regard to the representatives from Weber County, and I thank you for your attention in listening to me.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, the question before the house is on submitting this as a separate proposition_

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, the gentleman has spoken once on this question. I tried to speak the second time this morning and was shut off. I do not think he should have the privilege that was not accorded to me.

Mr. HOWARD. I am through now. I just want to ask a question that I have written here_     
Mr. SQUIRES. I submit the gentleman {749} is just as much out of order as I was this morning.

Mr. HOWARD. I rise to a question of personal privilege.

The PRESIDENT. You may state it.

Mr. HOWARD. Suppose two prominent lawyers were in court arguing an important case before a jury and one of them, afraid_

The PRESIDENT. To whom are you addressing that question?

Mr. SQUIRES. Addressing it to the Convention.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, excuse me_

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is out of order,

Mr. HOWARD. I was addressing it to Mr. Squires.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. Squires made the remark here this morning that I wished to ask him the question on.

The PRESIDENT. All right, ask Mr. Squires the question.

Mr. HOWARD. I will ask him the question.

Mr. SQUIRES. I submit, Mr. President, the gentleman is not in order.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Howard has the floor, Mr. Squires.

Mr. HOWARD. Suppose two prominent lawyers were in court arguing an important case before a jury and one of them, afraid he was going to lose his case, would leave the jury and go out upon the street and appeal_

Mr. IVINS. Mr. President, I do not wish to be captious about this matter, but I insist this is entirely out of order. Mr. Squires has not got the floor. I would like to see the rule applied to one man as well as to another.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will take his seat.

Mr. HOWARD. Now, I ask this question as a matter of personal privilege.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman will take his seat.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). Mr. President, I would like to make a few remarks before this subject is closed. I will state in connection with four other representatives on this floor, I represent about 1200 voters, and possibly 3000 constituents, and I have mingled among those people ever since I took my seat on this floor, and I have not heard so much as a single word yet in remonstrance against this proposition. I am opposed to recommitting this for the many reasons that have been explained on this floor. I consider that we have been very lenient indeed to the minority and have listened here several days to their discussions and allowed them to stir up a local opposition, for I maintain that it is only local. I have investigated carefully the sentiments of the gentlemen on this floor from the outside counties and I have failed as yet to find any constituency outside of Ogden and Salt Lake that ever made any complaints as to the action of the majority of this Convention. Now, I am not going to insinuate on the people of Salt Lake, but I do say that I represent a large portion of them_of the quiet, peacable [*note*], respectable citizens, and I have listened on this floor to gentlemen from the fourth precinct who represent a large constituency of the same class of people. I have listened to other gentlemen on this floor and I find that the only complaint or remonstrance at all against this proposition is from a local and central opposition. And as for Ogden, it seems to me that the honorable Mr. Evans has answered every opposition when he stated to us that something like 1800 voters favor the position that he has taken. And now I wonder that Park City and a few of the mining camps have

not sent in their remonstrance or asked the honorable Mr. Roberts to intercede in stopping this proposition.

Mr. SQUIRES. They are on their way.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). Well, {750} then, we are not going to wait for them, if I have a vote on this floor. [Applause.]

Mr. ROBERTS. Would the gentleman permit me a question?

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). Yes, sir.

Mr. ROBERTS. I did not catch your last remark. I would like to have you repeat what reference you made to me.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). I suggested with all due respect that I wondered why they had not asked you to intercede in stopping this measure.

Mr. ROBERTS. I will just inform the gentleman that I have the protests of the ladies on that subject in my hand, just this moment come.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). Well, we will hear from them possibly after a little. It looks to me as though it was undignified indeed for this Convention to wait for members on this floor to go out and stump in the various meetings and go out and ask the people to assist them in stopping and deferring this important subject. I have taken my position, and that is in favor of woman's suffrage, and I expect to stand by it. Gentlemen, I am ready to vote at this moment, if necessary to put this thing through, and I maintain, though I may be censured by the people of this Territory for haste, that we have been patient until patience has ceased to be a virtue.

Mr. STOVER. Mr. President, I wish to say the gentleman alluded to the mining camps not having sent in remonstrances. I wish to say that I represent a mining as well as an agricultural county (Tooele), and I wrote to them, asking them if they had any petitions to send in to send them to me in a day or two. I expect them to-morrow or perhaps Monday, and I know this, that my constituency_all of the mining districts, the western part_the eastern part of Tooele County is entirely opposed to female suffrage, especially to its being put into the Constitution. I believe they are nearly unanimous. All that I have heard from have informed me to that effect, and if it is put into the Constitution, they will vote against it. They have expressed themselves so freely to me on this subject. I had not intended to say anything. I have had a sore throat for several days, but when a fair proposition is made like Mr. Varian's proposition, to wait until Monday only, whereby we will lose no time, having plenty of business before this Convention, I have been astonished at the manner in which this question is made paramount to the whole Constitution. It is made paramount. They have forgotten that there are other great questions for us to consider_education, irrigation, and everything else, but this has been thrust upon us by the majority, supposing that it would be nearly unanimous, and there were only a dozen opposed to it last week. They are beginning to open their eyes_the people are, and the people of this city and

the great cities of Utah should be heard, and also the mining districts, and I tell the people that they will miss it, terribly, if they do not, because I want to see us have a Constitution that there is not a very great probability of its being defeated. There are several reasons why the people will vote against it if we place things in this Constitution that should not be there, and I claim that this is one. It should be submitted a separate matter, and if the gentlemen will only stop and think-do be honorable about this and let Mr. Varian's proposition pass. You lose no time, because on Monday I for one should say, the first question on Monday morning, that we shall take a vote.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I wish to now just read a few words here as a matter of argument. I will not put it as a question-if I have the privilege.

Mr. SQUIRES. I object.

The PRESIDENT. There is an objection.
{751}
Mr. HOWARD. I have spoken once on this question only.

The PRESIDENT. There is an objection, you having had the floor twice.

Mr. BUTTON. I would like to ask the question, Mr. President, is it the rule on this question that a man cannot speak but once?

The PRESIDENT. No, sir; but he cannot speak twice until the rest of the members have had their chance.

Mr. BUTTON. If there is not anybody else wanting to speak, can't he speak the second time? That is what I am after.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, rule 11 settles this matter, and I think it settles it in favor of Mr. Howard. (Reads).

Now, if there is any other gentleman that has not spoken that desires to, I think they should have precedence over Mr. Howard, but inasmuch as there is no other person, Mr. Howard should have the right to speak.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no other gentleman, Mr. Howard will speak.

Mr. HOWARD. I do not wish to occupy the time of the Convention very long. I will just read this now that I was going to say. Suppose two prominent lawyers were in court arguing an important case before a jury and one of them, afraid he was going to lose his case, would leave the jury and go out on the street and appeal to the people, what would you lawyers think of him?

Mr. GIBBS. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order.

Mr. HOWARD. What would you members of this Convention_

Mr. GIBBS. I do not think Mr. Howard is speaking to the question at issue at all.

The PRESIDENT. You cannot determine, for lie has not got through with it.

Mr. HOWARD. I am speaking to the question now of delaying this matter.

The PRESIDENT. Go right on, sir.

Mr. HOWARD. Commence at the commencement?

Mr. HALLIDAY. I move the gentleman be allowed to proceed.

Mr. HOWARD. All right. Suppose two prominent lawyers were in court [laughter] arguing a case before a jury, and one of them, afraid he was going to lose his case, would leave the jury and go out upon the street and appeal to the people, what would you lawyers think of him? What would you members of this Convention think of him? Answer it, yourselves, and yet is that not just the way the proposition of woman's suffrage now stands? Members of this Convention have been appealing to the excited feelings and prejudices that they themselves have made of a few of the people from the deliberate vote and study of the members of this Convention. I say shame on them. [Laughter.]

Mr. MORRIS. Mr. President, I object to delaying this matter for various reasons, or to referring it to the committee or the Legislature either on this ground. When we were elected as delegates to different conventions we were sent there as agents or representatives of the people to do that business for them. I attended a Convention in Provo when they placed that plank in the republican platform, and I do not remember of a single voice of objection to that plank. Since that I read the plank of the platform of the democratic party, which went two or three better than the republicans. Some have said here that that plank was placed in the platform at Provo to catch flies_for an object. I declare here I did not understand it so. I believed that they were sincere in their sentiments in placing that plank in the platform, and they declared there that they were in favor of giving suffrage to the women of Utah equal to the men. They were willing_that convention was willing, that party was willing, and we found the same sentiments in the democratic party {752} as well, that they were willing and not only willing, but as a party, as we have heard the plank read here just now_that they demanded as a democratic party that they were going to give suffrage to women.

Now, I will ask you gentlemen on this floor if we are going to defer it to the future and to the election and to the coming Legislature? How can we give it to the people? We claim to give it as a Convention and not leave it at the risk of the future to place it in the Constitution and spike it down, that it cannot be taken out again, and I cannot see how we can be consistent as a people, as intelligent men, as men that claim honor, to try and switch off from this matter at this late day. Hence, I am in favor of taking a vote upon this and decide the question and stop fooling as we have for several days, that we may go on with our business and get through before the year gets

through.

Mr. L. LARSON. Mr. President and gentlemen, so far as the main question is concerned, I do not intend to switch on that. I expect to stand by this. I intend to vote for woman's suffrage. I intend to vote to have it put in the Constitution; but it appears that there is such opposition and things have taken such a shape at the present time that it is almost a wonder to me, and I am astonished at very many points that have been brought before this Convention. Now, I am willing to be generous. So far as I am concerned personally, all the talk and all that has been said and done does not change my mind on the main question, but being that there is such opposition and the gentlemen say that they expect to hear from their constituents and so on (I am not looking for any information from mine; I have not asked for any, I do not intend to ask for any), but I am willing to concede thus far to give them a little time if they want to have it, as the gentleman from Salt Lake said, he would be ready. I hope they will all be ready Monday morning, then to go ahead to work like men.

Mr. THURMAN. May I ask the gentleman a question?

Mr. L. LARSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. THURMAN. Do you understand that in voting on this question, that we are about to vote on, or that we will, after Mr. Varian speaks, that you are voting for a submission of a separate proposition to the people and not for woman's suffrage in the Constitution?

Mr. VARIAN. Oh, no, no.

Mr. THURMAN. Don't you understand that is the fact?

Mr. L. LARSON. If the proposition they present does not suit me, I am under no obligation to vote for it.

Mr. THURMAN. Permit me to ask the question so that it may be distinctly understood, for I may be in the wrong myself. Don't you understand that the proposition here is to vote for this to be referred to a committee with instructions to bring in a proposition to submit to the people, and that the effect of this vote is to vote for submission to the people rather than to vote for woman's suffrage in the Constitution? Don't you understand that?

Mr. L. LARSON. I also understand that when the time comes that we have a right to vote it down. They ask for this permission, and I feel willing to grant it to them.

Mr. THURMAN. You understand the question, do you?

Mr. L. LARSON. Yes, sir; that is all I wish to say on the question. I am willing to concede them this.

Mr. PRESTON, Mr. President, as far as I have kept account I stand alone in this assembly as the

only one that has not spoken to this question. [Laughter.] There may be others.

Mr. CALL. There is one more.

Mr. PRESTON. But I am opposed to this proposition that is before the house entirely. We have been chawing {753} over this question now for some ten days and we have been considering all the time the wishes and the feelings of what seems to be the minority on this question. And it seems to me that we have considered it long enough. I have been ready to vote for this proposition to be placed in the Constitution for the last several days and there has been nothing made, nothing accomplished, no argument brought forward to prove to me that it ought not to be in the Constitution. I have been in favor of it, it seems to me ever since I was born_for free suffrage to all mankind. I was born and reared in the south amongst slavery. I was opposed to that as soon as I was big enough to think and know what it was, and I was glad when it was done away with. I look upon this restraint and restriction upon women, not having the privilege to vote, in the same light, that it is their right to vote and to take part in the government of the country in which we reside_that it is their right given to them through the Constitution of our great country that all men were created free and equal and that men always embrace the women [laughter], and so I have held it from then until now that they have this right. That it is inherent within them. It is their's by right and that there is nothing made or accomplished by this delay here_and may I say fillibustering [*note*]? I do not know scarcely what that means; I have heard of it in Congress and all that kind of thing. It seems to me that we are taking a little bit of a lesson in it now, and hence I am ready to vote upon this question now and here at this time, and I want the gentlemen to understand that I am in earnest about it. I am terribly in earnest on this question, and let us have it now.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent to have read the resolutions adopted at a large mass meeting assembled in this city this afternoon. Adopted by a unanimous vote.

Mr. CHIDESTER. I object.

The PRESIDENT. I do not think it can come up properly.

Mr. ROBERTS. I ask for unanimous consent.

Mr. BARNES. I object.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, have I the floor?

The PRESIDENT. Yes, sir.

Mr. EICHNOR. Hand me those resolutions. I will make them part of my remarks.

Mr. RICHARDS. Before Mr. Roberts yields the floor, I would like to ask him a question, and that is if he is not mistaken about these resolutions having been unanimously adopted?

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor has the floor.

Mr. IVINS. I desire to ask the gentleman a question.

Mr. RICHARDS. I would desire to ask the gentleman_

Mr. ROBERTS. I speak from information, as I was not there when the resolution was adopted.

Mr. RICHARDS. I know the gentleman would not intentionally misrepresent the matter and I therefore desire to call his attention to the fact that I am informed that there were scores of ladies present who voted against these resolutions, and a number of them are present in this building now.

Mr. IVINS. I want to ask the gentleman a question. He says that a subsequent canvass shows that these few opposing votes did not understand the question, and that they reversed their votes. I would like to know if any canvass was made to determine whether all the ladies that voted for this understood what they were voting for?
{754}
Mr. ROBERTS. I think the folly of the question will preclude any reason for answering it.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor has the floor.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, this is a matter that comes very close home. Now, I ask in all fairness and as a personal favor, irrespective of party or any other condition, to have this read without being compelled to inflict a speech on you. Mr. Chidester, you are chairman of the committee, will you object to it?

Mr. CHIDESTER. Yes, sir; I do. Mr.

THURMAN. Read it yourself.

Mr. IVINS. I suggest the gentleman has a right to ask the clerk to read this as a part of his remarks.

Mr. EICHNOR. I ask the clerk to have this read.

The PRESIDENT. The secretary will read for the benefit of the gentleman.

Mr. EICHNOR. As a part of my remarks, and I shall say nothing further.

The secretary then read the following:

The women of Salt Lake City and county, in mass meeting assembled, hereby adopt the following resolutions:

Whereas, a Convention is being held in this city for the purpose of framing a Constitution for the proposed State of Utah; and

Whereas, The question is being considered by said Convention of incorporating in said Constitution a provision for woman suffrage; and

Whereas, No opportunity has been afforded the women of this Territory to manifest their opinion upon the matter; and

Whereas, By the adoption of a plank in favor of woman suffrage in the platforms of both political parties, no opportunity was afforded to the citizens of this Territory to indicate their approval or disapproval of the proposition; and

Whereas, It is conceded alike by the advocates and the opponents of woman suffrage that in all intellectual attributes and attainments the women are entitled to vote, and if this is true, then they possess the necessary intelligence and attainments to enable them to determine for themselves whether they desire this privilege, and they should be given the opportunity to decide this question for themselves; and

Whereas, From the published statements of a majority of the delegates of the Convention, it appears that they are supporting the proposition of equal suffrage, not from personal preference or conviction that it is right, but because they feel obliged to do so from the fact that they have been elected upon platforms favoring woman suffrage; and

Whereas, It would be better to remain disfranchised than to have the privilege extended to us through compulsion; and

Whereas, it has been repeatedly stated upon the floor of the Convention and in the columns of the public press, and has been reiterated on every hand, that if a provision in favor of woman's suffrage is inserted in the Constitution it will prevent the adoption of the Constitution by the people or by the President of the United States; and

Whereas, We do not desire to see the possibilities of early statehood jeopardized by the efforts to extend to us the privilege of suffrage, when the same end can be obtained by other means; and

Whereas, A matter of such great importance, and one that affects the interests of all to such a great extent, and that imposes upon women duties and responsibilities of such a great and weighty nature, should not be adopted without a full, free and fair expression of all the people to be affected thereby; and

Whereas, If the measure is incorporated in the Constitution itself or submitted as a separate proposition at the time of the election for the adoption of the Constitution, women will not be legally qualified to vote upon the question; and

Whereas, The question of woman suffrage can only be voted upon by women after the adoption of the Constitution and the admission of Utah as a State, and only then under provision of the Utah Legislature; therefore be it

Resolved, That it is the sense of the women of this, the largest city in the Territory, in mass meeting asembled [*note*], that the question of woman suffrage should be left undetermined until provision can be made by the State Legislature for the submission of the question to a full, free and unprejudiced popular vote of the people of the new State, at which election provision shall be made for the women to vote upon the question, and that the first State Legislature be authorized and directed to call an election for such purpose, and that they be given the power to qualify the women to vote at such election; be it

Resolved, Further, that the Constitutional Convention be and they are hereby requested to substitute in lieu of the provisions that were adopted by said {755} Convention as a committee of the whole in favor of woman suffrage, the following:

Section 1. Every male citizen over the age of twenty-one years, possessing the following qualifications, shall be entitled to vote at all elections:

First. He shall be a citizen of the United States not less than three months before he offers to vote.

Second. shall have resided in the State or Territory one year immediately preceding the election at which he offers to vote, and in the county, city, town, ward or precinct such time as may be prescribed by law; provided, that no person shall be denied the right to vote at any school district election nor hold any school district office on account of sex, nor shall any person be denied the right to vote on account of sex at any election hereafter to be held, as herein provided, for the purpose of determining whether women shall be entitled to vote.

Section 2. The General Assembly shall, at the first session thereof, and may at subsequent sessions, enact laws to extend the right of suffrage to women of rightful age and otherwise qualified, according to the provisions of this article. No such enactment shall be of effect until submitted to the vote of the qualified electors at a special election held for such purpose, at which election women of the age of twenty-one years and over, and otherwise qualified according to the provisions of this article, shall be entitled to vote upon this question, nor shall such enactment be of effect unless the same be approved by a majority of those voting thereon.

Mr. EICHNOR. I know nothing about it.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I would like to ask Mr. Roberts that question.

Mr. EICHNOR. I know nothing about it.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I arise to a question of personal privilege.

Mr. EICHNOR. Excuse me, I had not finished my remarks yet.

Mr. RICHARDS. I desire to ask Mr. Eichnor a question, and that is, if there are no other signatures to that petition besides those which were read?

Mr. RICHARDS. I desire to know of Mr. Eichnor if he will answer, how many people that petition represents, if he knows?

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. Richards, I do not know. Permit me to explain here I introduced it as my remarks. The ladies live in Salt Lake City and as a matter of courtesy that every gentleman should have on this floor, I introduced them as my remarks, and I am not ashamed of it, either.

Mr. RICHARDS. I think we all understood the reason why, but I think it is fair that it should be known to this Convention what the real facts are.

Mr. EICHNOR. I do not know.

Mr. RICHARDS. I desire to say to you that I am informed that there was a very large vote in opposition to these resolutions which were introduced here as having been adopted unanimously.

Mr. EICHNOR. I do not know anything about that.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor has the floor.

Mr. LOW (Cache). I desire to ask the gentleman a question regarding the sentiment expressed in this article that has just been read. Are they expressive of your sentiments_that is, your sentiments?

Mr. EICHNOR. No; I differ with them in this respect, that I believe the better plan would be to put it in a separate article and place it in the schedule to be voted on.

Mr. LOW (Cache). Then, that is not to be considered as part of your speech?

Mr. EICHNOR. Considered as part of my speech. I have another part here.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Eichnor will proceed with his argument.

Mr. EICHNOR. I ask the secretary {756} to read two petitions signed by ladies and gentlemen of Salt Lake City. I think there are 139 names on the list_simply to read the headings of the petitions.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I now arise to a point order; that this is not the time to introduce resolutions or motions. We are in the middle of a debate and I object to any more being read or the headings of any other article. There is a time when these things can be introduced. Under the first item of business that should come before a Convention is the presentation of petitions and memorials. Now, I do not want to be_

Mr. CHIDESTER. I maintain that that that is out of order. That that is equivalent to introducing here a petition and a memorial, and that it is out of order to do so.

The PRESIDENT. It seems to the chair that this is a peculiar manner of making a speech on a question involving the consideration of the motion of Mr. Varian, and it seems to be wholly irrelevant to this proposition.

Mr. EICHNOR. Can I ask for information?

The PRESIDENT. Yes, sir.

Mr. EICHNOR. If I have the floor and am recognized by the President, cannot I read from some manuscripts and state that the matters can be resubmitted?

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. My point of order is that the gentleman cannot read anything or have anything read which does not apply to the question before the house. You this morning declined to allow the gentleman to make remarks on the question_

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. The president is not to be castigated here by a member on the floor.

Mr. CANNON. I desire to finish my remark on the subject.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. Let him state his point and not make a speech.

Mr. CANNON. I am stating my point of order, Mr. President, which is that it is no more relevant to read manuscript or read from manuscript and introduce matter foreign to the subject than it would be to speak extemporaneously.

The PRESIDENT. The chair rules the point of order well taken so far as that is concerned.

Mr. EICHNOR. I appeal from the decision of the chair.

Ayes and noes were called for.

The decision of the chair was sustained.

Mr. EICHNOR. I appeal to you as a matter of fairness, is not an appeal from the chair debatable after it is submitted to the house?

The PRESIDENT. The chair submitted it. Without there is a reconsideration of it called for_the chair will entertain a motion to reconsider this.

The PRESIDENT. You have the floor and proceed in_

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order. My point of order is that the ayes and noes have been demanded and that during that the gentleman cannot interrupt it at all.

The PRESIDENT. The ayes and noes have been called for on this question.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order.

The PRESIDENT. State your point of order.

Mr. EICHNOR. The chair had declared a decision. It is too late to call for the ayes and noes.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is correct. The gentleman will take his seat.

Mr. EICHNOR. Have I the floor?

The PRESIDENT. I recognize the {757} gentleman. He may proceed with his speech on this question.

Mr. EICHNOR. Now, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, after a little skirmishing I think I will accomplish what I intended to accomplish. Mr. Varian's motion is to recommit this until next Monday, or to have it reported on by next Monday. At present I have heard from my constituency, of which we have heard so much_about constituency. Right here are petitions that aggregate possibly five or six hundred names that ask that the question of woman's suffrage should be submitted in a separate proposition, and still they come. Here is one hundred or two hundred more. Now, gentlemen of the Convention, we ask nothing that is unfair. We simply ask you to recommit this question to be reported next Monday, and I will say with Judge Goodwin, that I will be ready to vote on Monday. It is merely a matter of courtesy_

Mr. CANNON. May I ask the gentleman a question?

Mr. EICHNOR. Certainly.

Mr. CANNON. Will you introduce a resolution providing that it be the sense of this meeting_modifying Mr. Varian's motion that it be recommitted and that when it comes it shall be decided by vote without debate on Monday?
    
Mr. EICHNOR. I won't say without debate, but I am willing to say that I will vote on Monday, that I will try and press the matter to a vote on Monday.

Mr. CANNON. I understand Mr. Goodwin's proposition to be that it shall be without debate.

Mr. GOODWIN. I think that if that be submitted that the republicans present will agree to vote without debate.

The PRESIDENT. What is the statement of the gentleman?

Mr. GOODWIN. I say that if the matter can be submitted to the republicans on this floor, I think they will agree right now.

Mr. EICHNOR. I will.

Mr. GOODWIN. If this motion can prevail to-day, that they will proceed to a vote Monday morning without debate.

Mr. SPENCER. Mr. President, I move that we now adjourn until Monday morning at half-past ten o'clock.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I move to amend that that we adjourn for five minutes; that is debatable, and I want to say something on it. I did not put this motion in here this morning for the purpose of filibustering or consuming this day. I want it voted on tonight, because I want the proposition as embodied in this motion before the house on Monday, so that I can have an opportunity to vote my convictions on this question, and if you adjourn until Monday the effect of my motion is gone. There is nothing left for it to operate on. I want the vote if I can have it to- night. If you should determine it in the affirmative, then on Monday morning we will have this separate proposition side by side with this proposition, and those of us who do not like the proposition of the majority will be enabled to vote as we choose. If you adjourn we are just where we started this morning, and if we desire to accomplish the purpose sought for to-day we will have to introduce a new motion on Monday to recommit, in order that the object may be accomplished. I withdraw now, with leave of the second, the motion to adjourn for five minutes.

The PRESIDENT. The question before the house is on adjournment.

Mr. GOODWIN. I ask permission to file with the secretary some matter which is left with me and which is very precious, and which I do hope will be {758} read_if the secretary could read the matter by title and refer it I would be very glad.

The PRESIDENT. The question is on adjournment.

The motion to adjourn was rejected.

Mr. ROBERTS. Mr. President, I arise to a question of personal privilege. The statement that I made here that the vote at the mass meeting was unanimous has been questioned. I hold in my hand a statement from the reporter who was present and polled the vote, and he says, “I was at

the mass meeting, I polled that vote, and there were five who stood up and voted against the resolution.”

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I make the point of order. I object to his proceeding.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Let him proceed.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is all there was to it, Mr. President. I wanted to put that fact before the people.

Mr. CHIDESTER. It is simply reading a proceeding of a meeting that has been ruled out here. It is not proper.

Mr. ROBERTS. I wish to state, Mr. President, that it is not reading what was done at the meeting.

The PRESIDENT. I think the point of order of the gentleman was well taken. I do not think it ought to go in here_a statement of that kind.

Mr. RICKS. Mr. President, I have been trying to get the floor for the last three or four hours. We have been discussing this question now several days, and this is the first time I have undertaken to get the floor, believing that some men were more conspicuous by their silence than other men were by their blab. I have noticed and listened to the reading of these various petitions and I haven't seen one yet from Sevier County, produced against the submission of woman's suffrage to the people either in the Constitution or as a separate article. I came here, Mr. Chairman, pledged to support woman's suffrage, and up to the present time, notwithstanding the great eloquence and many eloquent speeches that we have had for the last ten days, I have failed of being converted to an opposite position. I am opposed to the motion of Mr. Varian, or the substitute offered by Mr. Varian, for the reason that I believe if that proposition succeeds and is submitted to a special committee, it will come in here Monday morning and be read the first and second times by title and referred to the committee of the whole. It will come up in the committee of the whole and probably ten days hence we will be right where we are now, with the chances in favor of being mobbed out in the meantime, if the arguments of the future are to be in a line with the arguments of the past, and I am opposed to a further delay of this question.

Last fall, previous to the election in our county, especially, as all over southern Utah, this question of woman's suffrage was discussed by the speakers in both political parties. I cannot say it was discussed upon its merits, because there was none found to champion the opposition_nowhere, but it was discussed by those who were favorable to that proposition. When we came here every intelligent man and woman in Utah knew that we were coining here with the intention of submitting to the people the question of suffrage for women, and we never heard one single remonstrance until we had been here in session nearly one moat, hand not then, Mr. Chairman, until the opposition to that question was sprung in this Convention. Then it was agitated here until the public mind was wrought up to a pitch almost of frenzy. It commenced to be heard of from the outside. The last two or three days we have had many remonstrances, but

they have been signed only by a few people of this city and probably of Ogden. Not one single remonstrance has come here from the people. [Laughter.] Not {759} one single remonstrance_I should say from the people of the outside counties. Not one single remonstrance has come here from Sevier County, and notwithstanding every woman in the county of Salt Lake may oppose woman's suffrage and may petition this assembly not to in corporateit in the Constitution, it would not change my mind, because I am not here to represent Salt Lake County, but I am here to represent Sevier County, and I expect to represent it until I know that the majority of the people there do not want suffrage. Then I would think that I ought to change as their representative. I am opposed again to any further delay, unless, Mr. President, a proposition could be brought in here that would give a delay until Monday_but I am not in favor of submitting it to any special committee, or even recommitting it again to the old committee. I want it settled by this Convention, and if it could be arranged by unanimous consent to go over until Monday, with the understanding, Mr. President, that when it came up it would be voted upon, without debate, I would not oppose a proposition of that kind.

Mr. LUND. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. Aren't you now quite as conspicuous as anybody else on this floor?

Mr. RICKS. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. SNOW. Mr. President, I wish to call attention to the fact that this mass meeting, the result of which has been represented upon this floor, was called for the expressed purpose of protesting against the incorporation of woman suffrage in the Constitution. The call as issued reads: “The women of Salt Lake City and county who are opposed to equal suffrage being incorporated in the Constitution are hereby cordially invited_

Mr. JAMES. What has that got to do with it? I arise to a point of order, what has that to do with the question before the house?

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman is called to order on the proposition.

Mr. SNOW. Well, we have had a good deal to say about it whether it is before the house or not, and we have misapprehended it; we have been begging the question all the time.

Mr. JAMES. I call the gentleman to order.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman has the floor.

Mr. SNOW. And this comes from those who are opposed to it. It has been interjected into this debate and into the proceedings of this house, and by those who are vehemently opposed to woman suffrage. They have had all the favor, all the courtesy, that have been extended to members upon this floor, and when one member gets up and asserts his right, he is immediately called to order. Mr. President, I am emphatically of the opinion that all this demonstration on the outside against woman suffrage has originated in this house, and that the members have been stirred up by members upon the floor of this house in a way that they could never have been

stirred up by any other means.

Mr. ROBERTS. May I ask the gentleman a question? I would like to ask him, what of it_if this agitation did start upon this floor?

Mr. SNOW. I have this to say of it, that it is a manufactured sentiment that is not real. [Applause.]

Mr. ROBERTS. I would like to ask the gentleman another question, if he will permit me. Does he know of any sentiment but what is manufactured and is the result of agitation? [Applause.]

Mr. SNOW. I know this, that there is nobody who desires more than I a free expression of the people. I believe in the democratic principle that a majority should rule, but I do not believe, Mr. President, that anybody should be {760} coerced by fear, by threat, by menace. I know that the majority of this people have been so accustomed to fear, to acting from motives of fear, that they have almost been accustomed to silence their hopes and their aspirations because of fear. [Applause.]

I say again, Mr. President, that I am of the opinion that the embers have been stirred up by members upon this floor in a way that could never have been accomplished in any other way or from any other source. I am of the opinion that had it not been heralded by the public press that a certain gentleman, renowned in this Territory, would take a firm stand in this opposition, and that there had never been any agitation of this question by this Convention or by the public press of this Territory_these two principles were put in the political platforms of the parties who presented themselves for the people's suffrage last fall, and the public press of this city, that is the representative organs of the two parties of this city and this Territory, vied with each other in explaining to the people the sincerity of the plank which represented that they were in favor of giving equal suffrage to women. Mr. Chairman, it has been stated time and time again, but I will repeat it again, that up to the time of the sitting of this Convention no paper in this Territory_no club, no association, no corporation of individuals, whether it be commercial, social, or political, have raised one iota or one single voice or sentiment against what was incorporated in these party platforms. The people had settled down to the firm conviction that women in Utah were to have every right that is had by men, that equal suffrage hereafter was to be a reality in Utah. Mr. President, the press of the east has noted it; it has been talked of. It has been read about, and everybody had settled down to the conviction that it would come, and to all intents and purposes they were satisfied with the inevitable. I say that if that article when it was first read had been read now, conditions that existed up to the time of the meeting of this Convention, that it would have gone through in five minutes, and the people of this Territory would have said amen, and there would have been no demonstration such as we have been compelled to listen to. But because members have stirred up old scores and old fears, and spoken of men being insincere and criticised here with honest convictions of being peanut politicians, scurvy politicians, men who knew not the minds of themselves or their constituents, and especially of their constituents_I know the feelings of my constituents, and I want the reporter of the Deseret News, if he is here, to put me down in favor of woman's suffrage, and not give an opposite meaning to what I say, as was done in the remarks I made a few days ago upon this question.

Mr. EICHNOR. I would like to ask Mr. Snow a question. Have you ever read the call of the woman's mass meeting that met this afternoon at the Grand opera house in this city?

Mr. SNOW. I just read it.

Mr. EICHNOR. You gave the impression on the floor_at least I took the impression from your remarks, that it was the ladies opposed to equal suffrage.

Mr. SNOW. They were opposed to incorporating it in the Constitution.

Mr. EICHNOR. Submitting it as a separate article?

Mr. SNOW. I was barred out from reading the call. I want to emphasize the {761} fact that they came to protest and they have protested. It is no wonder it was unanimous.

Mr. VAN HORNE. Mr. President, there is only one promise, or one expression of intention that I have made with regard to the question of woman's suffrage before the Convention, and that was that I did not intend to make a fight on the question of woman's suffrage on the ground of principle, although I was opposed to it on principle. I have not made a fight on the ground of principle against the question of woman's suffrage. The only fight that I have made has been on the method of submitting the question to the people.

I believe that we can well afford to listen to our sovereigns when we come to deciding what we shall put in the Constitutional Convention. I will trust the people of Utah to make their decision as to what they want if we give them a chance to do it, and they will decide rightly. Gentlemen come here from away down in the country and speak about their being the representatives of the people. Aren't we the representatives of the people also? Gentlemen say that sentiment has been manufactured since this Convention met. Do they know what the sentiment was before the Convention met in the localities where they do not belong? There may have been no sentiment against equal suffrage for women, in Sevier, or Sanpete, or Washington. I know nothing about that. I know there was that sentiment in Salt Lake County, an integral part of the sovereign people. I know that before this Convention met there was man after man who said that they did not believe that anything ought to be done except to submit it to the people and let them determine whether or not they would have woman's suffrage. I know now that what we have heard and seen is just a little ground swell before the storm of sentiment that those towns will show and that other communities will show if we insist upon putting this thing to a vote without giving them time to express their opinions before us. [Applause.]

Gentlemen say, let there be peace on this question, but there is no peace if people are not permitted to voice their opinions, to let themselves be heard on what they may think on this

question. Peace may be called for, but it will be called for in vain. The mutterings of the storm only have been heard now. You will hear the full burst of thunder when we come to submit to the people the proposition of voting for woman's suffrage, or you cannot have any Constitution. [Applause.]

Mr. MILLER. We accept the challenge and when it shall come to a test, the gentleman from Salt Lake City will realize that the outside counties carry some force. [Applause.]

The PRESIDENT. If there are no other speeches, Mr. Varian will have the floor.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, we have been wandering all day in the doubt and uncertainty of a labyrinth until I for one have become almost lost in its mazes. Fortunately we held in our hands the parliamentary thread that may enable us, if we follow it closely, finally to reach a safe and sure standing ground.

I am not going to detain this Convention long. It is my desire and intention, however, to remove if I may all this matter that is clouding the question before the Convention, and which evidently has caused nearly every member here who has spoken to entertain a misapprehension of what has been before us and what we are considering. I had no purpose at all to resurrect this general discussion upon the question of woman's suffrage. I had not supposed that it would follow, when I early this morning introduced the motion which is the pending question. My purpose was to present before the Convention {762} the subject in such a shape that those of us who do not agree fully with the majority might have an opportunity of voting our convictions upon this question, and in doing so I have not departed, sir, in the least degree from the position which I have taken since the election, and now that I at least am pledged to submit in some way to the voters of this Territory the question of equal suffrage. But the proposition which is embodied in my motion namely, to recommit with instructions, to report the subject in such shape that it may be voted upon by this Convention as to whether or not it shall be submitted separately to the people, is not new with me, either. I believe the gentleman from Washington (Mr. Snow) made the statement a few minutes ago that until the meeting of this Convention, no question was ever made upon that matter. I beg to say to him and to others that over two months before the meeting of this Convention, or about that time, I submitted that proposition to the bar association of this Territory. It was published at the time and could have been read by any person who desired to read it. That was my conviction then; it is my conviction now.

Now, let us see if we may, just how this question stands here to-day. A report from the committee on elections and rights of suffrage presents for the consideration of the Convention an article governing and controlling that subject. That article has passed through the committee of the whole. It is now upon the calendar of this Convention for its third reading. It has been ruled by you, gentlemen, in the might of your power_ruled on yesterday that no amendment looking towards the separate submission of this proposition, or the submission of this article to the people by way of a separate article, was germane to the subject, and you crushed it out as you remember, so that the question was eft in this situation. The reading of this article must be proceeded with until it should be completed and then debate having ceased, no amendment such as I proposed and such as will be necessary in order to enable me to vote as I want to vote, could be accepted,

but the vote must be taken and under our rule no further amendment could be made to that article, except it be to change its dress_its form of expression, correct it errors of grammar or rhetoric or punctuation, if any there should be. It was and would become a fixed and settled fact. So that I and others who agree with me must be compelled either to vote aye or vote no, and I do not wish to do either as it stands, without at least first having an opportunity of voting upon the same article with the added proposition to submit it as a separate vote for the people to vote upon. Now, in order to correct that, I brought in this motion this morning, which gentlemen have been pleased to term irregular. I ask, gentlemen, how irregular? I am ready to be corrected. If gentleman can instruct me upon that question and convince me that this is irregular, I am willing to withdraw the motion. I do not ask the consent of this body to press an irregular motion. I had supposed and I certainly believe now that it is not only regular, but that it is the only motion that could be made here under parliamentary law which would enable me and those who agree with me to accomplish the purpose sought. A motion to recommit with or without instructions to a standing or a select committee is always, under every and all circumstances, as I understand it, a perfectly regular and proper motion upon the third reading and final passage of any bill or proposition. But, yet, I am willing, if I shall be convinced that it is irregular, and the regular and proper way shall be pointed out to me_I am willing to accept the regular and the proper way, because I say to you, I did not make this motion for delay. I {763} believe in submitting to the will of the majority of this Convention, and I will not wish it to be voted down, or wish it to be carried; when we shall have ascertained the will of the Convention upon it_I will not for one lend myself or my vote to any measures of delay or obstruction.

Mr. Jolley was by his request excused.

Mr. CHIDESTER. May I ask the gentleman a question?

The PRESIDENT. With his consent, yes.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Is not true that under rule 19, it would be necessary when a report is presented by this special committee to have this printed and referred to the committee of the whole?

Mr. VARIAN. No, sir. The proposition to which the attention of this proposed select committee is to be directed is a proposition for insertion in the Constitution. That is just what I am trying to get at. It is a proposition to be submitted separately, and the rule only applies_and you have no other rule that is applicable to propositions which are to be submitted in the Constitution, and in reply to the gentleman from Weber, who undertook to take up the cudgels of defense for the committee on elections and rights of suffrage, although no member of that committee seemed to feel chagrined or in any degree hurt because the motion did not include the reference to that committee, I will say this, that the reason why it was not proposed to be referred to the standing committee was because the motion contemplates nothing but ministerial action. It does not contemplate leaving to the select committee any discretion whatever. And why? Simply because we desired to get back here in proper form the proposition in such a shape that it would be in order to move for its substitution, and so we could vote upon that question. If it shall carry, on Monday morning, the select committee will embody a command of the Convention in this report, and the proposition will be back here and will come up on the third reading with this and it may

then lawfully_even I believe under the rule laid down by my friend, Mr. Thurman, from Utah County, be a subject of proposed amendment to the pending question, and you have them both side by side. Gentlemen seem to have been under the misapprehension that this motion contemplated taking away from them the question now pending. I do not understand it so. I never intended it so. I simply meant in this way to get an opportunity to make a lawful proposition to amend so that we could vote upon it, and not have it disposed of with a ruling under a point of order being made as it was made on yesterday.

If the gentleman had let his point of order, go by yesterday and if the yeas and nays had been taken on the proposition of amendment, this motion would never have been made. I should never have made it. I would have accomplished all that I seek to accomplish. If it should have been voted down, as I doubt not it will be, I should have said, and I will say on Monday without debate, so far as I am concerned, without another word upon this subject, “If you shall return that proposition here and let us vote upon it, I will not vote in any way to obstruct you in your desire to reach a conclusion upon this question.” And I say to you now that in some shape or other I purpose to vote for woman's suffrage in this Convention. Gentlemen, I do believe that you mean all that you say when you talk as if this question had taken up so much time that the time was wasted, that you were being dealt unfairly with. Surely, if you stop to reflect, you will know at once that of necessity you must expect men to differ with you on all public questions. You may expect that particularly on a question of this kind, and more especially as to how the matter shall be submitted to the {764} people. Your minds are made up, it is true. You are perfectly satisfied, and if fifty-four of you voting reach the conclusion that your convictions were so secure and so matured that you never would change them, you would have the power perhaps to crush out all opposition, bring everything on and have it your own way, and you would probably justify it to your consciences by saying “Well, I know it is right,” but remember that the person in the minority would not feel that way. It is grand to have power, but it is superb to use it generously. Now, you cannot pass this article to-night. Let it go to this special committee. Let the matter come back on Monday morning from the committee. Let the proposition come up as we desire it by a motion to amend or by way of substitute, and vote it down if you will, and I for one promise you that no other motion will I make, no other vote will I cast tending in any degree to delay you in the accomplishment of your wishes upon this question.

And now, sir, while there are some things unsaid that I intended to say, out of respect as well as charity for the feelings of the Convention, after this long laborious session, I call for the yeas and nays upon this motion.

Mr. HART. Will the gentleman permit a question? I would ask whether this question would come up on Monday under the motion to commit as it now stands_whether to-day would not be excluded from the account and Tuesday would be the earliest day that it could get back into this Convention?

Mr. VARIAN. Saturday, Sunday, Monday. The last day is counted in and the first day excluded. I am willing if there is any doubt about it, and you will allow me, to instruct the committee to report on Monday morning at 10 o'clock.

Mr. HART. I would like to ask the gentleman whether if this motion prevails the effect of it would not be that we would have no question before the house to insert directly in the Constitution, and if the position would not be exactly reversed and the only question before us would be whether we would submit this as a separate article or not submit it all?

Mr. VARIAN. I will answer that. Perhaps I ought to have made that more clear before. This committee, under this resolution, is to report a separate article to be submitted with the Constitution. It is also to report the article as you have it now pending, with such revision as should be necessary in case the separate proposition should prevail. That is to say, instead of the article reading now for the equal suffrage of men and women, it would simply provide for male suffrage, because the other proposition having to be submitted separately would not control the question until the vote of the people should have determined it. There it is, one proposition in two parts. The gentleman will remember that on yesterday Mr. Thurman made the point that you have to revise this whole article in order to get an amendment such as was suggested by Mr. Eichnor and make it germane.

Mr. HART. Just one more question, whether this proposition would not lose its place on both our calendars and go the foot of the calendar of the committee of the whole?

Mr. VARIAN. I have given my idea about it; it does not go to the committee of the whole at all. It goes on the third reading. It comes right up with this on Monday when we reach it.

Mr. BUTTON. Cannot you add to your motion that it will be the first thing taken up on Monday after the regular order?

Mr. THURMAN. That is not in order.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Question on the motion.

The PRESIDENT. The secretary will {765} read the motion so that every gentleman may understand what he is doing.

The secretary read the motion of Mr. Varian.

Mr. JAMES. I suppose Mr. Varian would accept Monday in place of three days.

Mr. VARIAN. I would like consent to have that changed to read, with instructions to report Monday at 10 o'clock.

Roll call on Mr. Varian's motion to recommit the article on elections and right of suffrage, showed the following result:

AYES_42.

NOES_52.
Allen

ABSENT_10.
Evans, Utah    
Francis    
Kearns    
Kerr    
Larsen, C. P.    
Moritz
Nebeker
Thatcher
Warrum
Williams.

Mr. Jolley and Mr. Lewis were paired. The president declared the motion to recommit lost.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I move the previous question.

Mr. VARIAN. What is the previous question?

Mr. CHIDESTER. On section 1.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I arise to a point of order on that. We do not call the ayes and noes until we get through with the reading.

The PRESIDENT. Through with the reading of the entire section.

Mr. VARIAN. Once will do, won't it?

Mr. RICHARDS. I move that section 1 of the article on elections and rights of suffrage be passed.

Seconded.

Mr. RICHARDS. I move the previous question on it.

Seconded.

The PRESIDENT. All that are in favor that the main question be now put will say aye.

(Division called for. )

(Ayes and nays called for.

The PRESIDENT. The secretary will call the roll.

Mr. EVANS ( Weber). I would ask of {766} Mr. Richards if he would not withdraw that motion for the previous question. There may be some gentleman who desires to offer some amendment. It will simply consume a lot of time.

Mr. RICHARDS. I am willing to withdraw it if some gentleman desires to speak. I desire to say that the reason why I called for the previous question was because I assumed from the remarks made on the other motion that there would be no further opposition to the vote. I am willing to withdraw it if any gentleman desires to offer an amendment.

The PRESIDENT. If there is no objection the gentleman shall have the privilege of withdrawing the motion.

Shall we proceed with the reading of the article?

Mr. BUTTON. Mr. President, I move we adjourn until Monday morning at 10 o'clock.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). Mr. President, the question now is on the passage of section 1.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, a motion to adjourn is in order.

Mr. EVANS (Weber). I know it is; we can vote it down, though.

The PRESIDENT. The question is the adoption of section 1 of the suffrage article. All in favor of its adoption_

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I heard a motion here to adjourn, which is always in order.

The PRESIDENT. I did not hear it. There has been a motion to adjourn, gentlemen.

The question being taken on the motion to adjourn, the Convention divided and by a vote of thirty-four ayes (noes not counted) the motion was rejected.

The PRESIDENT. The question before the house is on the adoption of the section.

Mr. ROBERTS. I would like to hear the section read. There has been so much clamor I have most forgotten how it did read.

Mr. Lambert offered the following amendment:

Every citizen of the United States, not laboring under any of the disabilities named in this Constitution, of the age of twenty-one years and over, who shall have resided in the State one year, and in the county six months, and in the voting precinct sixty days, next preceding any election, shall be entitled to vote for all officers that now are or hereafter may be elected by the people, and upon all questions submitted to the electors at such election, except as herein otherwise provided.

Seconded.

Mr. HART. Tile question is whether that would not take the main proposition with it.

Mr. THURMAN. I will withdraw it.

The PRESIDENT. Gentlemen, there is a proposed amendment before the house.

Mr. LAMBERT. Mr. President, I would like to talk to that amendment. In 1882 or previous to 1882 the women of Utah had the right of suffrage. In 1882 a constitutional convention was called in Utah, and after due consideration of this question, after weighing it in every way, the article that I have sent up was what was submitted. In that constitution for Utah in 1882 it covered the ground then and it gives to-day all that the women of Utah ask. The women of Utah to-day are not asking to be policemen, are not asking to be constables, are not asking to be sheriffs, are not asking to sit as justices of the peace, are not asking to be forced into the jury box.
Gentlemen of the Convention, we should consider this question. Last summer I visited Wyoming. The people in Wyoming to-day admit that they have bit off more than they can chew. They admit that though they have these same sections that are offered here in their constitution, that it is inoperative, and I am anxious to see the women of Utah have the right of suffrage, {767} but I am not anxious to see our Constitution burdened and hampered and our future legislatures hampered and hindered in the performance of their duties. Gentlemen, this is a grave question. It is a question that comes to our homes. Men here tell what their constituents have said. My constituents ask me for suffrage, and there for it to stop. I have taken particular pains to visit through the second precinct of Salt Lake City, the largest voting precinct in Utah Territory. I have conversed with leading women of that precinct, and I have found not one who is anxious to fill these offices, but they simply ask a limited franchise of the right to vote on questions that interest them and deeply interest them, and gentlemen, I affirm that this gives them every right that they can ask for, every right they want, and it should be considered.

The amendment of Mr. Lambert was rejected.

The roll being called on the adoption of section 1, the vote was as follows:

AYES_75.

NOES_14.
Haynes
Hill
Kiesel
Keith
Lund
Mackintosh
Page
Pierce
Roberts
Ryan
Sharp
Spencer
Stover

ABSENT_12.
Adams
Evans, Utah
Jolley
Kearns
Kerr
Larsen, C. P.
Moritz
Nebeker
Thatcher
Varian
Warrum
Williams.

Messrs. Bowdle, Button, Cushing, Green and James were excused from voting.

During the roll call the following explanations were made:

Mr. BOWDLE. Mr. President, I wish to be excused from voting on that proposition, and I wish to state my reason for it. I am in favor of woman suffrage being submitted, and had I had the opportunity of voting on that proposition here, and it had gone down, I should now be prepared to vote on this; but I shall not vote if the Convention will excuse me.

Mr. BUTTON. Mr. President, I wish to be excused for the same reasons stated by Mr. Bowdle.

Mr. CUSHING. Mr. President, I wish to be excused for the same reason.
{768}
Mr. GIBBS. Mr. President, I would like to be recorded in that way. I vote aye in favor of women having the suffrage, but I would like to vote no on it going in the Constitution.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I still expect that a wave of solid American common sense will come over this Convention before it adjourns, and that they will put this plank in as a separate measure to submit to this people; but for the present I want to say that while I have given my reasons, I think it is a dangerous experiment to give suffrage
to women indiscriminately, even as it has been to give it indiscriminately to men; under my ideas of duty I am going to record my vote aye to-day; still thinking that some of my misguided friends will have some American common sense come to them before we adjourn, and we will come to a reconsideration.

Mr. GREEN. Mr. President, I wish to be excused from voting on this question. I wish to state further, that I wish to vote on a separate article, as I am thoroughly in sympathy with that way of doing_give the people a fair chance to express their opinion upon it.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I would like to explain that Mr. Jolley expected to get back in time to vote on this. He did not anticipate the vote would be taken so soon. He told me he would vote aye if here.

Mr. LAMBERT. Mr. President, I want to be recorded aye on that, with a privilege of asking for a reconsideration.

Mr. MAUGHAN. Mr. President, I want to be recorded aye on this proposition, with the right that if there should ever a wave of common sense come_

Mr. HART. I call the gentleman to order. No one has a right to reflect upon the judgment of this body of men, and say that they are not exercising common sense.

Mr. MAUGHAN. I did not think I had made any such a statement.

Mr. HART. I so understood the genman [*note*]. I call him to order, any way.

Mr. MAUGHAN. If this wave should come, I will record my vote no, and vote for separate submission.

Mr. McFARLAND. Mr. President, I wish to be recorded as favoring a separate article, but will vote aye on this.

Mr. PAGE. Mr. President, I would gladly have voted for the submission of a separate article, granting woman the right of suffrage, but as this ques-came up, I feel it my duty to vote no.

Mr. RYAN. Mr. President, the people of my district are opposed to woman suffrage. They were willing, however, that every delegate should vote for it, if it was a matter of keeping party pledges; and the people or the Convention were in favor of it. They want a separate article. So do I. I feel that this is somewhat forced_the vote on the article, and I shall be compelled to vote no.

Mr. SPENCER. Mr. President, I desire to explain my vote. I intended to vote no, and I only have one request; that is, that the chairman or president will instruct the secretary to underscore that no.

Mr. IVINS. President, I arise to a point of order. Under the rules no gentleman has a right to explain his vote unless he wishes to be excused from voting; and I object to the gentlemen explaining the reason why they vote either aye or no; if they want to explain, {769} and be excused, they can do it under the rule.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I would like to explain in behalf of Mr. Warrum, that he was unfortunately called away this afternoon, but he was in favor of woman suffrage.

Mr. BOWDLE. I call the gentleman to order. He cannot vote for somebody that is away from here.

Mr. EICHNOR. I shall vote aye, and when the wave of public sentiment sets in, as my friend Mr. Maughan says, I shall move to reconsider.

The PRESIDENT.    The section is adopted, gentlemen.

Mr. VAN HORNE. Mr. President, I move that we do now adjourn until Monday next.

The PRESIDENT. It will be understood, gentlemen, that to-morrow is a holiday. The adjournment will be until Monday at 10 o'clock.

The motion was agreed to and the Convention then, at 5:45 o'clock p. m., adjourned until next Monday morning at 10 o'clock.