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NOTE: You may notice textual errors throughout this document, many of which have been left intact from the original text. Should you want to investigate the integrity of the original report, please refer to the original two printed volumes containing the official report of the proceedings and debates.


TUESDAY, May 7, 1895.

The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, at 10 o'clock a. m. President Smith in the chair.

Roll call showed a quorum present.

Prayer was offered by Delegate Thorne.

Journal of the sixty-fourth day's session was read and approved.

Mr. EICHNOR; Mr. President, I move that Mr. Whitney, who is a member of the committee to draft an address to the people of the Territory of Utah, make a verbal report and submit the address as prepared by the committee.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, in accordance with the request of the Convention, I submit the report of the committee appointed to draft the address to accompany the Constitution. In this connection, I will make a request in advance that the committee not only have leave to file their written report hereafter, but also to make one or two slight amendments, which we already contemplate in the document itself.

The address was then read as follows:


The Convention assembled to frame a Constitution for the proposed State of Utah, after two months of earnest effort, present the result of their labors {1836} for the consideration of the people of this Territory.

The ruling thought that actuated this Convention, from opening to close, was that under the direction and mandates of the Enabling Act, a Constitution must be framed that would secure to the people of Utah a wise, just and economical State government.

In this we believe we have succeeded, and we confidently submit to our fellow citizens the fruit of our deliberations, knowing that they will bear in mind the impossibility of our presenting any instrument that would not contain imperfections, inasmuch as the more than one hundred delegates who constructed it came together understanding little of each other, all more or less influenced by local ideas, and by impressions which the peculiar situation in this Territory for years past could not help but create and intensify. Nevertheless, it has been gratifying to note that there has probably been less partisan feeling and more unselfish unanimity of sentiment in this Convention than in any other political body of like character.

The inspiration behind the declaration of rights came from the great parent bill of rights framed

by the fathers of our country.

The article on the proposed educational system has absorbed the best thoughts and efforts of the Convention, and draws around the public schools such protection and defense as will secure for them, it is believed, the steady upward progress which is the enthusiastic desire of this people.

The legislative article, while permitting future lawmakers to perform any needed thing, circumscribes their powers in a way to prevent either extravagance or the misuse of legislative authority.

The executive article defines clearly the prerogatives and powers of the several State officers, places all necessary authority in the hands of the executive, and at the same time supplies all needed checks to prevent usurpation of power.

The judiciary article makes possible the conducting of the courts effectively by competent judges. It seeks to exalt the judiciary and yet bring the system within a reasonable expenditure of the people's money. The probate system has been abolished, but power is given the Legislature, to restore it, if deemed necessary, or to adopt any other plan that may be wise or expedient.

The salaries of all officials have been marked down close to the danger line of extravagant economy.

We have provided to give equal suffrage to women.

We have inhibited for all time polygamous or plural marriages.

We have placed within safe limits the maximum of future taxation.

We have guarded against the possibility of any future great indebtedness of the State.

We have provided for the full development of our manifold industries, in such a way that in their expansion they will not feel any harsh friction from unjust laws.

We have provided for the correction of possible defects in the Constitution, either by amendments or by the enactment of statutes.

We have guaranteed perfect liberty of speech, freedom to the press, and absolute freedom of conscience.

We recommend our work to the gracious and generous consideration of the men and women of Utah, believing they will esteem it a fitting foundation on which to rear the structure of a glorified State.

If with statehood there will be a slight increase in taxes, the compensating advantages will cause that increased expense to be forgotten. We will be able to utilize the magnificent gift of over

seven million acres of land from our generous government; we will be {1837 - PRINTING PROCEEDINGS} able to secure capital for our mines; under the shield of statehood thousands of people will seek homes in our climate, assist to develop our wondrous and varied resources, and rejoice in the manifold blessings bestowed by nature upon our highly favored commonwealth.

When we reflect that this instrument will secure to us in its highest sense local self-government with State officers of our own selection, and courts for the swift, capable and economical administration of the laws by judges of the people's choosing; that it will give us a school system abreast of the foremost in the Union, with power to utilize the lands donated to our educational institutions; give us a voice in the election of Presidents, also two senators and one representative to present the claims of our new State in the Congress of the nation, and the star of Utah to the hallowed ensign of the Republic, bestow upon us full sovereignty with all that this majestic term implies, and thus draw to us capital and population and invest us with a dignity that can never attach to a territorial condition, with steady swelling confidence we submit this Constitution to the consideration of the people of Utah, in the certain belief that they will, by an overwhelming majority, endorse and ratify our work.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I move the address be adopted.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, I trust the gentleman will include in his motion the granting of the request that I made, that the committee have power to make one or two slight amendments, before formally submitting the report.

Mr. SQUIRES. I will modify it in that way.

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I think there is one item that we should attend to in connection with the publication of the proceedings of the Convention. I believe that it would be well to have this done in good shape, and for that reason, and because I believe it should be edited by a man who is able to present the matter in a clear and intelligent way, I move the adoption of the following resolution:

Resolved, that Arthur Stayner, Esquire, be employed to take transcript furnished by the stenographer, and the minutes of the secretary, and from these compile for publication a volume or volumes, that shall be concise, comprehensive, and clear, at a compensation of $500, to be paid in case Congress shall make an additional appropriation for the expenses of this Convention.

I will state, Mr. President and gentlemen, that I believe that is ordinarily done in conventions. There are many matters, that if we were to take them without arranging, they would not be clear; and if we have a volume published at all, I think it should be done in such a way that the public would get the benefit of it. I believe that Mr. Stayner is as well qualified for this work as any man whom we could employ, and I favor the adoption of the resolution for the reasons stated.

Mr. EICHNOR. Is it your idea to compress the debates into one small volume?

Mr. CANNON. Well, I have not gone over the debates. I have listened to them. I do not know whether we could get them into one volume or not, but I suppose you could.

Mr. EICHNOR. I should judge it would take about four.

Mr. CANNON. I think that there are a good many things that have been repeated that the editor would be perfectly justified in throwing out, and yet no material point would be lost. The purpose of having a stenographer was to get all the material points, and get them just exactly as they were presented.

Mr. BOWDLE. Where will the funds come from for obtaining the printing of these volumes?
Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I believe that we cannot possibly publish these volumes unless Congress shall make an appropriation. It has been, I believe, the case in nearly every convention that has been held, that Congress has granted an additional appropriation, and I think that later on we should have a committee appointed, or possibly our committee on expenses, to investigate exactly the amount that has been incurred of the indebtedness and expense, so that if Congress ever does make an appropriation, the records will show to whom the funds should go. I think that should be done, but it will come in later, and this item, and also the expense of publication, binding, etc., would be included in that, doubtless.

Mr. BOWDLE. Does that include the thejournal, or is the journal a separate matter?

Mr. CANNON. As I understand it, this would be the journal. The secretary's minutes would be taken and compared with the stenographer's notes, and from the two a volume would be compiled that would explain clearly that which went on in the Convention.

Mr. BOWDLE. Then, as I understand it, this is not the printing of the debates at all?

Mr. CANNON. Yes, sir; that will include the debates.

Mr. BOWDLE. My understanding of the proceeding in these matters is that the journal is printed in a separate volume almost invariably.

Mr. CANNON. It may be that that might be printed separately, but the whole matter would be under his supervision, and would be compiled for publication.

Mr. BOWDLE. Nothing would be published then, unless there is a new appropriation?

Mr. CANNON. No, sir; it could not be published without. I think that Mr. Stayner might possibly be willing to undertake the work with the understanding of what the custom has been in the past, of Congress appropriating, especially as I understand that at the present time he is not employed.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, this is certainly one of the most remarkable propositions that we have had presented to us during the session. I must confess that it is surprising to me to have a plan of

this kind come in in this shape. If the gentleman's notion was that such work should be done by some one single individual, aside from the membership of this Convention, he might at least have left a blank there, and let the Convention fill the blank, instead of proposing to do the whole thing by his resolution. I am not in favor of giving to any one man any such power as is proposed by that resolution. If we have any one to revise and compile this work, I am in favor of a committee consisting of more than one man, and of having those men appointed from the membership of this Convention. The gentleman says that Mr. Stayner is out of employment. That may be true. I saw him around the building yesterday. I do not know the particular business or qualification of the gentleman for this work. He may be qualified for all I know, but it seems to me, Mr. President, that this work, if done at all, should be done by a committee of members of this Convention. Here they propose by this resolution to place it in the power of one man to say what shall go into that record and what shall not, what speeches shall be included and what speeches shall be omitted. I am opposed to the resolution in its present shape.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake.) I would like to ask, is it contemplated that Mr. Stayner would go ahead with this work, trusting to the appropriation being made, and in the event of there being no appropriation, that he would trust to getting his compensation from {1839} the sale of the book, having a copyright or something of that kind?

Mr. CANNON. On that point I would simply state that the purpose is as explained here, not to have Mr. Stayner go ahead, except with the expectation of getting it from Congress.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I hardly think that the resolution covers the ground. I think there will be more than one volume; at least there will be a volume of the proceedings and then a volume of the debates, and perhaps more. I favor the proposition, though, in the main, that one can do it cheaper than to have a. committee do it. I believe, however, it would be proper to have it under the supervision of a committee, appointed from members of this Convention, but one man would do it cheaper than a committee would do the work, therefore, I would favor this resolution, with such modifications as would meet the circumstances of the case.

Mr. RALEIGH. I will ask if it is not contemplated publishing the journal of our proceedings?

The PRESIDENT. It has been the custom in other states.

Mr. CRANE. Mr. President, there seems to be a misunderstanding or misapprehension in regard to this matter. The debates here are an entirely different matter from the journal of the Convention. The journal of the Convention has been published here every morning. I hold in my hand the journal of the day's proceedings of South Dakota, the constitution, the enabling act, etc. That makes a very small book. We have had a good many debates here, and while I believe that Mr. Stayner is thoroughly competent to do this work, it seems to me that it should be under the supervision of a committee appointed or elected from this body. I do donot think the journals and debates should be placed in the hands of any one individual. It would be an exercise of authority not contemplated by this Convention. So far as an appropriation by Congress, I feel confident that if this Convention should ask our delegate to have an appropriation to cover the deficiency, we would get it. It has been done frequently by states which have adopted constitutions, and Utah

would receive the same consideration at the hands of Congress.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, with the consent of my second, I would like to amend this resolution, adding to the end of that the words, “the work to be done under the supervision of the committee on compilation and arrangement.”

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, so far as I am concerned, I am not prepared to vote, and by that vote to say that we have not men in this Convention who are competent to transact that business for us, and I am opposed to going upon the outside, as long as we can get men in this Convention, who are members of this Convention, to do that work. I shall vote against that resolution, even with the amendment. I am in favor, however, of some provision being made for the publishing of the proceedings of this Convention.

Mr. KERR. Mr. President, it seems to me it would be much better to so, amend that resolution as to provide for the publication of the journal and proceedings of the Convention, under the supervision of a committee named by this Convention, leaving it with that committee as to what assistance should be employed in this work. I do not think that it is proper that we should name a particular individual to do this work under the supervision of any committee even, named by the Convention.

Mr. WHITNEY. I would like to ask if Mr. Stayner has agreed to take his compensation in that way_conditionally?

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I will state that nobody has been authorized to negotiate with Mr. Stayner. I understood {1840} from talking with several members of the Convention that Mr. Stayner was capable of performing such work.

Mr. WHITNEY. There is no doubt of that.

Mr. CANNON. And I asked Mr. Stayner how he was situated, and he stated that at the present time he was not employed and he could undertake the work. I told him the probability was that if the work were authorized to be performed, it would be as stated here, conditionally, and nothing would be paid unless it was appropriated by Congress.

Mr. HART. I would like to ask the gentleman where he gets the estimate of five hundred dollars, as a proper compensation for this work?

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I would state that that was fixed by conversing with the stenographer, who is very well posted on that kind of work, and he told me that he estimated it would take at least ninety days to perform the work, and if the gentleman should work ninety days, and have the ability that Mr. Stayner possesses, he would be worth at least six dollars a day, which would amount to five hundred and forty dollars, but taking it in a lump sum, I thought if five hundred dollars were appropriated, it would probably cover the amount.

Mr. FARR. Mr. President, my understanding of the duties of the stenographer was that he

furnishes a copy of what he has drawn off of the day's transaction, and has kept an account of everything that has transpired of the whole session, and we have a copy of the journal already on hand. The duty of a man to arrange this matter would be to take them and get them in proper shape to be printed. I do not understand that this five hundred dollars is going to pay the printer for the publishing of all these books. If that is the case it is very cheap. I understand there isn't anyone who will undertake this job unless they take the risk of getting it out of Congress. I cannot conceive that it is going to be a very expensive job to take the stenographer's report that is all down plain, that we pay him for_that is a part of his duty, that we pay him for from day to day. Of course, if they want a committee appointed from this body of men, the committee suggested by Mr. Cannon is a very appropriate committee. It can be done without much expense. I am certainly in favor of this work being done as it should be done. Every member would like a copy of the doings of this Convention, and a good many gentlemen here would like a copy of their speeches, no doubt, and I would like to have them all gratified, but I am not willing to put my hand in my pocket to pay for it. I am willing that Congress should do it, if they will. I think w e have got as good a Constitution as there is anywhere. I *am not ashamed of it. I would like to see it published. I want to say in regard to Mr. Stayner, I am perfectly acquainted with him. I know him to be a competent man. I do not know a man more competent than he is, and he would get it out in good shape, and if he is willing to take the risk of getting his pay from Congress, why, I should say, he is the man to employ under the supervision of this committee.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, I wish to amend the resolution by adding after the word “volume,” the words “or volumes of the whole of the stenographer's report.”

Mr. CANNON. I accept that amendment.

Mr. THORESON. Mr. President, I wish to offer the following as a substitute for this resolution and the amendments:

Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by this Convention to compile and publish, as early as appropriations for that purpose can be obtained from Congress, the journal, Constitution, and debates in full, of the Convention, and {1841} the secretary and stenographer are hereby ordered to furnish a correct transcript of their work to said committee.

Mr. SQUIRES. I would like to ask the mover of that substitute, if he contemplates any compensation to this committee?

Mr. THORESON. An appropriation for that purpose can be obtained.

Mr. FARR. Mr. President, I propose if Congress does not pay them, we put our hands in our pockets and pay them.

Mr. RALEIGH. Mr. President, I have an amendment to that, that the words “from Congress” be inserted after the word “appropriation.”

Mr. THORESON. I accept of that amendment. I believe Congress will do it, but I think that even if Congress did not the members of this Convention would, even if they had to go down in their

own individual pockets_at least the journal and the Constitution should be published.

Mr. IVINS. I make the suggestion that the committee be appointed by the president.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I move as an amendment to the substitute offered by the gentleman from Cache, to strike out the words, “a committee of five,” and insert in lieu thereof “the committee on compilation and arrangement.”

Mr. THORESON. I accept that amendment.

Mr. Evans, of Utah, offered the following substitute:

Resolved, that a committee of three be appointed to supervise the printing of the journal and proceedings of this Convention, to be paid for out of any moneys that may be appropriated by Congress to pay any deficit incurred by this Convention.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, I want to suggest to these gentlemen that they ought to fix the compensation in there, in order that the precise amount of the deficiency may be ascertained. If this Convention does not decide what its expenses shall be definitely and certainly, no Congress will make any appropriation, because it will be uncertain how much is needed. A convention should, in passing a resolution of this kind, fix the sum, and then it goes in to swell the aggregate of the deficiency.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I move that the sum of one thousand dollars be inserted as compensation.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). I will accept that.

Mr. BOWDLE. Mr. President, I will move as an amendment, that the sum of five hundred dollars be inserted, the same as in Mr. Cannon's motion.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I prefer the substitute offered by the gentleman from Cache, for the reason that that provides for the committee on compilation and arrangement to supervise this work. I think that a good solution of this whole thing would be to pass the suggestion or amendment that Mr. Varian proposes with Mr. Thoreson's amendment, making the committee on compilation authorized to supervise this work. Let them employ whom they may, and then fix the compensation in there at five hundred or a thousand, or whatever sum we may agree upon.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, if the substitute shall prevail, offered by myself, the president, under our rules, will make the appointment of that committee. I think three is plenty to do that work. I believe they will be able to do it just as well, and do it at less expense, and there is no reason why the president could not appoint the number from them.

Mr. PARTRIDGE. Mr. President, I do not understand that the substitute of Mr. Evans provides specifically for the accomplishment of the work, only a committee to supervise the work. It should state specifically that it is to include the printing and publishing.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, {1842} that is true, but they would naturally have to arrange it before they would do that.

Mr. FARR. I would inquire how many copies the gentleman wants to have printed.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Whatever they may deem proper.

Mr. FARR. It will make quite a difference in the expense. I have not seen anything in all the speaking yet that will be any improvement on Mr. Cannon's resolution. It is concise, and it places it in the hands of a man that I know is competent, and one man can arrange all that under the supervision of the committee, with less expense than to have that committee doing it.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, in bringing this matter up, I had no special desire to name any particular man. As far as I am personally concerned, I do not care a fig whether Mr. Stayner is employed or not, but I believe it would be better to place it in the hands of a man who is pretty well known to the Convention. Whichever committee is appointed to take charge of the work can simply supervise it. They must leave it to some one man who will go over the matter and present it in the best possible form. I believe that we cannot select a man better qualified for this work than Mr. Arthur Stayner. The idea, however, would not be repugnant to me at all to leave it entirely to the committee on compilation and arrangement. I shall certainly vote against the substitute of the gentleman from Utah County and in favor of the Thoreson amendment, if I cannot carry the orignalproposition, but I believe on the score of economy it would be better to use that, because it only appropriates five hundred dollars. I think the work can be done for that, and will be done quite as well as if we leave it to a committee of five, and it will be then under the supervision of that committee anyway.

Mr. HART. Would not the committee on compilation and arrangement, if Mr. Thoreson's amendment should prevail, have the authority to engage Mr. Stayner?

Mr. CANNON. They certainly would, but we have the same authority. The part is not greater than the whole.

Mr. HART. You concede that some committee should have supervision of this matter?

Mr. CANNON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HART. Supposing we name here some man and his work is not satisfactory to the committee, what kind of a situation are you in then? Will your supervising committee have the right to discharge the man the Convention names?

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I believe if anything should happen that the gentleman did not do his work or happen to die, the committee would have full power to act.    

Mr. KERR. Mr. President, if Mr, Thoreson's amendment should prevail and this matter is left to the committee on compilation and arrangement, that committee could use such portion of the

thousand dollars appropriated as may be necessary. I certainly believe that we should leave it entirely with the committee on compilation. I have the greatest confidence in the committee and do not believe they would use more than necessary.

Mr. RALEIGH. Mr. President, I do not hear any number of copies specified in any of those.

Mr. SQUIRES. This proposition does not go to the printing, as I understand it, and I was going to suggest, to make that plain it should say that one thousand dollars is hereby appropriated for the labor to be performed by the committee.

The amendment of Mr. Bowdle was rejected.

The substitute of Mr. Evans, of Utah, was rejected.

The PRESIDENT. The question now {1843} recurs on the substitute of Mr. Thoreson.

Mr. THORESON. Mr. President, in offering my resolution I originally had a committee of five to be appointed, and I would fix the amount for the expense of said committee and their work at one thousand dollars, and would like that to be added to the resolution.

Mr. EVANS (Utah). Mr. President, if I remember correctly, we provided yesterday for the publishing of the Constitution. I move that that be stricken out.

Mr. THORESON. The journal would not be complete without the Constitution being published with it.

Mr. CHIDESTER. Mr. President, as I understand it, by that resolution, we propose to pay them now. There is nothing said in that with reference to any future appropriation.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, before a vote is taken on this proposition, I must call attention to one thing. In employing the stenographer, we employed him to furnish a transcript of his notes to the secretary of the Territory. He is not expected, for the compensation we have already agreed to give him, to furnish an extra copy for the use of this committee. Now, it may require a large share of that thousand dollars for him to furnish an extra copy for the committee. Now, some provision ought to be made for extra compensation if he is to furnish that copy.

Mr. THORESON. Mr. President, if I remember the wording correctly, the transcript was to be furnished for the use of the committee. Afterward the same transcript can be used.

The substitute of Mr. Thoreson, as amended, was adopted.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I move the reconsideration of that vote, and that the amount be put at fifteen hundred dollars, to include the copy to be furnished by the stenographer.

Mr. VARIAN. Mr. President, as I understand it, that thousand dollars only applies to the

compensation of the committee.

The PRESIDENT. That is all.

Mr. VARIAN. The preceding paragraph in the resolution contemplates the publishing and printing, and of necessity, I presume, must include the expense of getting the copy for the printer.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, the reason of my motion was that the Convention has seemed to think that the stenographer would naturally supply this copy. It was only in his contract to supply a copy for the secretary of the Territory.

The PRESIDENT. The explanation was made, Judge, that the committee could use the copy that went to the secretary of state.

Mr. GOODWIN. Yes, if he will permit it. If that copy goes through the hands of the printer, it will not be a very lovely looking document to file away.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I understood there were two copies contracted for. The stenographer says not. He says there was the one copy only.

The motion to reconsider was agreed to.

The motion to fix the sum at fifteen hundred dollars was agreed to.

Mr. THURMAN. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent to offer one word in addition as an amendment to the miscellaneous article. In section 2, “real and personal estate of every female acquired before marriage, and all property to which she may afterwards become entitled by purchase, gift, grant, inheritance, or devise, shall be and remain the estate and property of such female, and shall not be liable for the debts, obligations, or engagements of her husband, and may be devised or bequeathed by her as if she were unmarried.” I move after the words “may be” to insert the word “conveyed.” The effect of the amendment is {1844} to give married women the right to convey their property by a deed as well as to bequeath or devise it by a will. “Convey” is omitted in the article as it stands.

The PRESIDENT. There is no objection, so we will accept it.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, I offer the following resolution and move its adoption:

Resolved, that the chairman of the committee on printing is hereby authorized to supervise the printing of two thousand copies of the Constitution, and that the said chairman shall send fifteen copies to each member of the Convention, five copies to each county court, one copy to each territorial officer, and two copies to each newspaper in the Territory, and the remaining copies to be deposited with the secretary of state, subject to the order of the president of the Constitutional Convention.

Mr. L. LARSEN. Mr. President, I would made an amendment to the motion, that copies be sent to the municipalities.

Mr. KERR. I would like to ask the chairman of the committee on printing if he knows what three thousand copies of the Constitution would cost?

Mr. LAMBERT. We did not ask for more than two thousand, and that was the amount set apart and appropriated. It is too late now to change it.

Mr. LARSEN. Mr. President, I would make an amendment that two copies be sent to each municipality.

Mr. LAMBERT. Mr. President, I am opposed to the amendment of Mr. Larsen, because it is contemplated in there that the members, being distributed all over the Territory, could furnish copies to the municipalities, and there are not copies enough, unless we change the arrangements, to do so.

Mr. Eichnor accepted the amendment of Mr. Larsen.

Mr. LUND. Mr. President, I believe the copy of the Constitution, as the secretary will present it to the Tribune, job printing office, is perfect, and they can print that without making any mistakes, and then they could express it collect on delivery to the members without any additional expense. We closed up our books yesterday, and if you do this, we would like to have you tax yourselves to pay the little bill.

Mr. KIMBALL (Salt Lake). Mr. President, I move an amendment to this resolution, to allow the chairman of this committee, Mr. Lambert, for live days' compensation, in the event of appropriation from Congress that he be paid.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, I hope Mr. Larsen will withdraw that amendment, for the reason stated by the chairman of the committee on printing. I do not think we will have copies enough. Each member has fifteen copies, and with those fifteen copies he can certainly distribute them to his neighboring towns, and all the towns around it.

Mr. LARSEN. Mr. President, I would prefer that the members have less copies, and have the municipalities have two.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I will say that no arrangements have been made for the printing of the address with the Constitution.

Mr. LAMBERT. It was included in the estimate as a part of the Constitution.

Mr. EICHNOR. Mr. President, with the consent of my second, I will change the number from fifteen to each delegate to ten. Then there will be enough.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I move an amendment to that, that ten be changed to fifteen. I think the members of this Convention can distribute that Constitution as well as some one individual. They live in all parts of the Territory, and they can better distribute it.

The amendment of Mr. Hart was agreed to.

The resolution as amended was adopted.
Mr. Thurman offered the following resolution, and moved its adoption:

Resolved, that the committee on compilation and arrangements ascertain and report to this Convention, as soon as possible, the full amount necessary in addition to the sum already appropriated by Congress, to complete the work of this Convention, as provided by its orders and resolutions, and that said committee draft a memorial to Congress for the amount of said deficiency, and present the same with their report herein.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I move to transfer that to the committee on finance.

Mr. HART. Mr. President, I am opposed to the amendment of Judge Goodwin. The committee on compilation and arrangement consists of a greater number of members than this other committee, and being stronger in numbers, I think that an important piece of work of this kind might better be transacted by them. I am, therefore, In favor of the original resolution.

Mr. CRANE. I would like to ask if this resolution contemplates the immediate report to the Convention of the expenses that are to be incurred.

Mr. THURMAN. Not necessarily. I suppose any time before we adjourn. That was what was in my mind when I wrote it. Now, I favor the resolution as offered by myself. I had in mind that there are gentlemen upon that committee of compilation and arrangement, who can write so elegantly, and present matters so plausibly, that even Congress could not resist any appeal that might be made by those gentlemen, and in saying that, I mean no disparagement to the able committee on contingent expenses.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, if that is to go, I move that Mr. Thurman be also added to that committee. Mr. President, the resolution is an impossibility. This Convention will probably adjourn within the next three weeks, and the amount cannot possibly be ascertained. They might fix the resolution, and leave it with the committee, when finally completed, to publish the amount, and draft a memorial. That is all right, but we cannot get it in time to report to this Convention.

Mr. THURMAN. I would like to ask Judge Goodwin why they cannot?

Mr. GOODWIN. Will the secretary please read the resolution again?

Mr. THURMAN. It says the amount as provided by the orders and resolutions of this body. Now, certainly, we will make those orders and resolutions before we adjourn, and it only has to be approximated by that committee.

Mr. WHITNEY. Mr. President, it seems to me that the business mentioned in this resolution should be divided between two committees, or else that the two committees undertake it_the

committee on compilation and arrangement, and the committee on expense. There are two different matters, and the committee on compilation and arrangement have already one report on their hands which is not yet completed. We have not time to report by to-morrow in this matter.

Mr. RALEIGH. Mr. President, I would suggest that Mr. Lund be connected with that committee.

Mr. GOODWIN. Mr. President, I suggest that it be changed, that the committee on finance make this report, and then if it is desired to have the other committee draft a memorial, why, if Mr. Thurman is added, there will be no trouble.

Mr. BOWDLE. Mr. President, I do not understand how they are going to arrive at how much this printing will be. As I understand the resolution that we have passed, the printing of the debates and of the journal will all have to be provided for, and all put in the same appeal that we want to send to Congress. I do not see how they can know just how much that is going to be.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. President, I {1846} move as an amendment that this duty be required of the two committees, the committee on compilation and revision and the committee on expenses, that they be associated for that purpose.

The amendment was agreed to.

The resolution as amended was adopted.

Mr. Cannon offered the following resolution and moved its adoption:

Resolved, That the committee on printing obtain and report to this Convention, bids for printing and binding two thousand copies of the proceedings of this Convention.

Mr. CANNON. Mr. President, this was offered before the resolution of Mr. Thurman had been read. I think the information should be obtained by the committee on printing and turned over to the other committee. I do not know whether it is necessary to present it here or not.

Mr. LAMBERT. Mr. President, this resolution, instructing the committee on printing to report to this Convention, cannot be complied with. We would have to have all the notes of the stenographer and have to measure all those notes and find out how much matter there is, before any estimate of the amount of expenses could be made. That thing would be impossible by to- morrow night.

Mr. SQUIRES. I would like to inquire if Mr. Cannon's resolution points to the printing of two thousand copies of the debates? That will just swamp Congress. It is in a pretty hard hole now to pay its running expenses.

Mr. RICHARDS. I desire to ask the gentleman from Salt Lake who offered this resolution, if it is not all covered by the resolution we have just adopted? I think it is.

Mr. CANNON. I stated it might probably be covered. I will withdraw it.

Mr. SQUIRES. Mr. President, I trust that the figures stated in this resolution will not be used as a guide by the committee on compilation and expenses in estimating the cost of printing. Two thousand copies of that journal, will be a pretty expensive luxury_of the debates.

Mr. CANNON. I would like to ask the gentleman if he is going to have any copies at all.

Mr. SQUIRES. I expect we will have some copies.

Mr. CANNON. The expense of paper and printing after the press work is set up is an inconsiderable amount.

Mr. CRANE. Mr. President, we have here a lady to-day who is well known, not only through the western portion of the Union, but throughout the nation as one of the most gifted orators in the country. She kindly consented to address this Convention for fifteen or twenty minutes with their permission. I refer to Miss Clara Foltz, of San Francisco. I move that the lady be requested by the chair to do so.

The PRESIDENT. Mr. Crane and Mr. Thurman will please lead the lady to the platform.

The lady was escorted to the platform by Delegates Crane and Thurman, and delivered an address.

The Convention then, at 12:20 p. m., adjourned until 9 o'clock to-morrow morning.

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